All is not what it seems within China's High Speed Rail development.

Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
T-U-P said:
I don't know what train stocks from the 80's you are referring to, but the CRH started operating in 2004 with the "D" designation. The train that was struck by lightning I believe is the CRH2 which is based on a modified E2-1000 from Japan. the E2 itself is not exactly old 80's technology and it was modified before delivering to China.

Either way, these trains should've been monitored at all times anyways. If the lightning took out the train's communication system, the operation center should noticed the disappearance of the signal, if the communication is not knocked out, then it should be even easily to identify a problem. I do not believe that the 2 trains are traveling so close to each other that the 2nd one did not have enough time to stop even if informed. In fact, the time and distance it takes to stop these trains was even advertised to a great extent on CCTV when these CRH trains were put to service.
Click to expand...

Now tell me who build the supervisory and monitoring system for the Train?. Normally those who supplied the rolling stock supplied the monitoring and supervisory system
Unless we know further about the circumstances of the accident it is too early to put the blame on China I guess all the china basher are out in force tomorrow.

2004 date is not the beginning of high speed service It is the date when China MOR invite bidder to build high speed train above 200km/hr The CRH2ABC is this high speed train. But earlier there is speeding up campaign .Chinese railway speed in 1993 is only 30km/hr So they have earlier licensing agreement to improve the railway. Two different thing . The car that is involve in accident is not CRH2 car

"Speed Up" campaigns
Main article: Campaign to raise the speed of railway travel in China
The building of the fourth line of the Guangshen Railway (pictured here in Feb. 2007) allows faster passenger train traffic to be separated from slower freight traffic. It is one of the earliest examples of a passenger dedicated line.

In 1993, commercial train service in China averaged only 48 km/h (30 mph)[10] and was steadily losing market share to airline and highway travel on the country's expanding network of expressways. The MOR focused modernization efforts on increasing the service speed and capacity on existing lines through double-tracking, electrification, improvements in grade (through tunnels and bridges), reductions in turn curvature, and installation of continuous welded rail. Through five rounds of "speed-up" campaigns in April 1997, October 1998, October 2000, November 2001, and April 2004, passenger service on 7,700 km (4,800 mi) of existing tracks was upgraded to reach sub-high speeds of 160 km/h (100 mph).[11] A notable example is the Guangzhou-Shenzhen Railway, which in December 1994 became the first line in China to offer sub-high speed service of 160 km/h using domestically-produced DF-class diesel locom
 
Last edited:
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Schumacher said:
Japanese technologies are known to operate well under normal, routine conditions but when something not totally predictable happens like lightning strikes, disasters happen. Just look at the poorly designed Tepco nuclear plant.
Click to expand...

Poorly designed? It suffered an earthquake and tsunami, both many times stronger/larger than it was designed to be protected against. If anything it exceeded its design specification by not being totally destroyed.

Schumacher said:
What I described about Japanese technologies in general is not irrelevant.
Click to expand...

T-U-P has already dealt with this. Bringing nuclear reactors into a discussion of trains is not relevant. I'm sure if someone had said "oh Chinese technology's so awful, look at [random scandal regarding Chinese goods]" people here would be upset and complain.

Japanese trains generally speaking have a very good safety record and are normally manufactured to a high standard. So, if you want to blame Japan, you need to dig up some facts relating to these types of trains.
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
Now tell me who build the supervisory and monitoring system for the Train?. Normally those who supplied the rolling stock supplied the monitoring and supervisory system
Click to expand...

Assuming Japan provided everything, it would still require that it was integrated and operated properly.

Unless we know further about the circumstances of the accident it is too early to put the blame on China I guess all the china basher are out in force tomorrow.
Click to expand...

You know, if this had happened in the UK, the finger would have first been pointed at the UK authorities by the media and general public. Some people might have questioned the foreign technology, but the reaction would have been "if it was so bad, why were you using it?"

The whole of China isn't being judged by this, so I have no idea why you said what you did. It's possible for Chinese citizens to love their country and still criticise parts of its government/bureaucracy/infrastructure. There's no need to try to point the finger elsewhere, it's not like every Chinese citizen is going to be punished because of what a factory/some engineers/some bureaucrats may or may not have done.
 
Last edited:
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
I don't understand why there's so much focus on finger pointing or talking about where the technology is from. Whether it's "Chinese" or "Japanese" technology is irrelevant. If you create your own piece of technology for use, you're the one responsible for making sure it's safe. If you purchase a piece technology for use, you're still the one responsible for making sure that it's safe. If something bad happens while you're using that technology, no matter who made it you're responsible for preventing it from happening again, because you own it. That is just a part of ownership.

Freak accident or human error, it's pretty irrelevant if the trains were Chinese, Japanese, or German technology. For one, the use of high speed rail does not exist in a vacuum, but in a system. Whatever shortcoming or potential problems the technology itself is supposed to encounter, the system is supposed to resolve. No system is perfect and can predict everything. Obviously this time whatever system was in place failed, whether it be through error, or a lack of foresight which can't be helped. For two, it's freaking lightning. No matter if it was Japanese, Chinese, or German technology, the train, or even the entire electrical system would still probably be fried. Now that this accident happened, they know there is a problem, and let's hope they do what's necessary to prevent it from happening again.

Honestly, this senseless comparison of male genitalia isn't just being fed by "china bashers". Anyone who feels the need to respond to it or make some point to disown responsibility is just as culpable. The "which one is better mentality", whichever side it's from, simply misses the point.
 
Last edited:
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Well said, latenlazy. It's important to look at what went wrong and learn as many lessons as possible (if there are any) to improve safety for the future.
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


English.news.cn 2011-07-24 19:10:59 FeedbackPrintRSS

Photo taken on July 24, 2011 shows the accident scene where rescuers clear the wreckage in Wenzhou, east China's Zhejiang Province, after a train collision and derailment Saturday night. As of 9:30 a.m. (0130 GMT) Sunday, the death toll has risen to 35 and 210 others were injured. The accident occurred on a bridge near downtown Wenzhou when high-speed train D301 rear-ended the stalled D3115. Four carriages of D301 fell off the viaduct while two carriages of D3115 were derailed. (Xinhua/Chen Bin)


SHANGHAI, July 24 (Xinhua) -- Three railway officials were sacked on Sunday after a train collision killed at least 35 and injured more than 200 others, the Ministry of Railway said.

Long Jing, head of the Shanghai Railway Bureau, was removed from his position after a high-speed train smashed into another train Saturday night in east China's Zhejiang Province, killing at least 35 and injuring 211.

Li Jia, head of the Shanghai railway bureau's committee of the Communist Party of China, and deputy chief of the bureau He Shengli were also dismissed from office, said the ministry.

The three will also be subject to investigation, the ministry said.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Quickie said:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


English.news.cn 2011-07-24 19:10:59 FeedbackPrintRSS

Photo taken on July 24, 2011 shows the accident scene where rescuers clear the wreckage in Wenzhou, east China's Zhejiang Province, after a train collision and derailment Saturday night. As of 9:30 a.m. (0130 GMT) Sunday, the death toll has risen to 35 and 210 others were injured. The accident occurred on a bridge near downtown Wenzhou when high-speed train D301 rear-ended the stalled D3115. Four carriages of D301 fell off the viaduct while two carriages of D3115 were derailed. (Xinhua/Chen Bin)


SHANGHAI, July 24 (Xinhua) -- Three railway officials were sacked on Sunday after a train collision killed at least 35 and injured more than 200 others, the Ministry of Railway said.

Long Jing, head of the Shanghai Railway Bureau, was removed from his position after a high-speed train smashed into another train Saturday night in east China's Zhejiang Province, killing at least 35 and injuring 211.

Li Jia, head of the Shanghai railway bureau's committee of the Communist Party of China, and deputy chief of the bureau He Shengli were also dismissed from office, said the ministry.

The three will also be subject to investigation, the ministry said.
Click to expand...

Knew from the beginning that he won't be able to evade responsibilities.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top