Schumacher
Senior Member
Yup, the old CRH2 was Kawasaki design. Some were even entirely imported from Japan.
They should try to get compensation from Kawasaki or at least retire these and replace them with newer Chinese designed CRH.
All is not what it seems within China's High Speed Rail development.
- Thread starter bladerunner
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Yup, the old CRH2 was Kawasaki design. Some were even entirely imported from Japan.
They should try to get compensation from Kawasaki or at least retire these and replace them with newer Chinese designed CRH.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
redundant
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Thanks I check on your wiki reference , Seem like the old system is based on magnet attached to the rail and sensor on the train . Based on this reference they can calculate the speed and inform the dispatcher where the train is at any moment.
As you say they can easily convert it to GPS system giving continuous surveillance
But don't forget that China imported the train stock and monitoring system back in 80's Initially just outright import latter on they build it themselves on license. The technology must be developed way earlier. So it could be designed in 70's at that time no GPS . Or it could be too expensive or immature sytem to install GPS system on Train. No upgrade since it is outdated. I guess now they probably either revamp or scrap the train
I don't know what train stocks from the 80's you are referring to, but the CRH started operating in 2004 with the "D" designation. The train that was struck by lightning I believe is the CRH2 which is based on a modified E2-1000 from Japan. the E2 itself is not exactly old 80's technology and it was modified before delivering to China.
Either way, these trains should've been monitored at all times anyways. If the lightning took out the train's communication system, the operation center should noticed the disappearance of the signal, if the communication is not knocked out, then it should be even easily to identify a problem. I do not believe that the 2 trains are traveling so close to each other that the 2nd one did not have enough time to stop even if informed. In fact, the time and distance it takes to stop these trains was even advertised to a great extent on CCTV when these CRH trains were put to service.
Schumacher
Senior Member
Japanese technologies are known to operate well under normal, routine conditions but when something not totally predictable happens like lightning strikes, disasters happen. Just look at the poorly designed Tepco nuclear plant.
Recently, there were a lot of extreme weather with lightnings. The Beijing-Shanghai latest Chinese CRH just stopped causing some delays while this Japanese train couldn't stop. Looks like Japanese technologies put punctuality above safety while it's the opposite with Chinese technologies.
Recently, there were a lot of extreme weather with lightnings. The Beijing-Shanghai latest Chinese CRH just stopped causing some delays while this Japanese train couldn't stop. Looks like Japanese technologies put punctuality above safety while it's the opposite with Chinese technologies.
Not quite, the lightning struck the Beijing-Shanghai line's overhead electrical grid, stopping pretty much all the trains running in that section, whereas this lightning struck a single train, thus only the train that got hit was stopped but not the one behind it.
If you want a fair comparison between Japanese technology and Chinese technology, then you will have to look for cases of the Shinkansen train getting hit by lightning vs. the CRH train getting hit by lightning and analyze the effect to the entire system in both cases. Any other type of comparison would be quite pointless. Tepco might or might not be an isolated problem, but that's rather irrelevant to this event.
When 2 trains collide, we have to look beyond the problems with individual trains, and look into the problems with the entire train network as an integrated system. It is inevitable that trains will breakdown just like any other mechanical electrical system. What's more important is the emergency measures that are put in place to prevent a technology breakdown from turning into a tragedy. Clearly, whatever emergency system they have on this CRH line right now is inadequate.
It is reported that neither train is the new Chinese designs. The train hit by lightening is numbered D3115, which is a CRH2 -- a joint production of Kawasaki. The train ran into D3115 is numbered D301, which is CRH1 -- a joint production of Bombardier.
h t t p://roll.sohu.com/20110724/n314364788.shtml
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Schumacher
Senior Member
Investigation is still ongoing but I read the train behind also had some power issue due to lightning affecting its ability to stop.
What I described about Japanese technologies in general is not irrelevant. Not all may agree with it but there are certainly important views globally about certain undesirable aspects of Japanese technologies in general that are along the line of my description.