Aircraft Carriers III

Brumby

Major
I believe I'm not "responding to Moderation above" (but I noticed it, that's why I'm mentioning it):
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


... size-limit reached; you can read the rest in the source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I think Polmar's reasoning is seriously flawed besides not presenting a cogent case for the alternatives. For example, he is conflating the issue of an appropriate force structure composition with funding. Fundamentally, carriers and LHD/LHA's serves very different function. Whilst some of the functions may overlap, he was not able to articulate how the core carrier function can be replaced other than one CVN can pay for 4 LHA (which is a funding issue and not a utility issue). He talks about lack of range with carrier aircrafts but that is not a carrier sizing issue but rather a lack of longer range aircrafts. That issue would more likely be aggravated by lack of cats that are non resident in LHA'S.
A very surprising poor case being put forth considering his stature.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
This is great on many levels
Edit: One of them being this confirms the Marine Nationale #1 US Navy partner status (and vice versa). No other navy has integrated/exchanged/cooperated/conducted actual comb ops together more than the US and French Navy lately. Remember this is no the first time French and US CSG conduct joint ops in the Gulf... except this time, the French are in command (and CdeG effectively acts as the HQ).

USS Harry S. Truman & Charles de Gaulle Carrier Strike Groups Now in Combined Combat Ops
c54lLuc.jpg

U.S. Navy strike aircraft from nuclear powered aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) flew their first missions in support of Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR), the fight to destroy the ISIL terrorist organization, Dec. 29. Truman and embarked Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 7 join French nuclear powered aircraft carrier FS Charles De Gaulle (R 91) in conducting combined combat operations in Iraq and Syria from the Arabian Gulf.

"Warfighting is the priority; that's why we are here," Batchelder said. "We provide the hard power in the collective DIME, and look forward to contributing however we can. Dual carrier operations with the French allow us to maximize our firepower and provide a unique opportunity to further progress against ISIL. It validates our abilities to successfully operate as an international coalition while conducting very dynamic operations."
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:
was it ... nothing?
U.S. Carrier Harry S. Truman Has Close Call With Iranian Rockets
The U.S. aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman came about 1,500 yards from an Iranian rocket in the Strait of Hormuz last week, two U.S. military officials told NBC News on Tuesday.

As the Truman was transiting the strait, which connects the Arabian Sea and the Persian Gulf, Iranian Revolutionary Guards conducted a live-fire exercise right near the U.S. carrier Saturday, officials said.

A U.S. military official said an Iranian navy fast and short attack craft began conducting a live-fire exercise at the same time the carrier was nearing the end of the strait, firing off several unguided rockets. A French frigate, the U.S. destroyer USS Buckley and other commercial traffic were also in the area.

The official said the U.S. ships were in the "internationally recognized maritime traffic lane" at the time, not in any territorial waters, when the Iranian navy announced over maritime radio that it was about to conduct a live-fire exercise and asked other vessels to remain clear.

After the warning, the rockets were fired from a position about 1,500 yards off the carrier's starboard side and in a direction away from passing coalition and commercial ships and the traffic lane, the official said. The rockets were not fired at the Truman and other ships, only near them.

While the official said the Iranians were "clearly not" targeting ships, the action was "unnecessarily provocative and unsafe."

There were no direct communications between U.S. and Iranian navies, the official said.

Coalition forces continued transiting without any further incident, the official said, adding that the Truman is now in the Gulf and launching aircraft in support of Operation Inherent Resolve.

Nobody from Iran's foreign or defense ministries gave official comment, but the country's state-run news agency, Fars, said in its report of the event that no vessel was in danger.

The incident was a planned training exercise and all vessels in the area had been warned, it said.
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
was it ... nothing?
U.S. Carrier Harry S. Truman Has Close Call With Iranian Rockets

source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It was a very "provocative" act by Iranians, conducting live missile tests with a 25 min warning announced on the common "marine" navigation channel. It is dangerous to go "active" with live fire missile drills and firings that close? 1500 yds is "spitting distance", and given the tension between the US and Iranian Navies, it was a "show of force" by the Iranians, and also a threat, to do that in such close proximity to the Truman.

Taken in context with the "Iranian Target Barge", it is a threat to attack carriers transiting the straights, and an attempt to get the Truman to take "evasive action", which it did not do, but continued on course. Had the Truman turned away, or slowed, that would have been seen as some great Iranian "victory over USN".

As it was, its just like the dumbest kid in the neighborhood?? borrowing his Daddy's 45, and shooting cans in the street as the cops go by in the patrol car. So basically the neighborhood thug, brandishing his weapon, and popping off a few rounds in the opposite direction.

Smart people don't do these things, the USN would never do something so dumb, if an un-authorized vehicle or person enters their excercises, the range is "shut down" until that vehicle was no longer a factor. Unguided missiles are just that, once they are launched, they are just projectiles.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
was it ... nothing?
U.S. Carrier Harry S. Truman Has Close Call With Iranian Rockets

source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I have seen this all over.

These were small, unguided rockets, fired by small craft after the Iranians warned the vessels in the area that they were going to conduct the exercise.

They clearly did it as a propaganda coup, and to try and show that they could do something...anything... in opposition to the US.

But such weapons and craft are not any kind of serious threat to the carrier or its escorts.

IMHO, the US should warn the Iranian that any unannounced (as in two-week notice or more) live fire exercise within 5 nautical miles of any US carrier will result in the obliteration of the vessels firing the ordinance, the base where they came from and any airfields in the near vicinity of said base that might otherwise support those vessels.

The fact is, until they fired them, you would not know what was being fired and whether you were targeted or not...particularly at 1,5000 meters.

Of course, the US would then have to be willing to follow through on such an ultimatum, and rain hell down on them if they try anything like that again.

But make no mistake, this particular exercise as it panned out did not pose a mortal threat to the carrier or its accompanying vessels. Those weapons may have injured or even killed some US personnel had they targeted the carrier at that range...but such an actual attack would have resulted in a swift and heavy response.

If they had fired a larger guided missile, both the escorts and the carrier have the means to shoot them down, and hopefully, after other incidents in the area, are prepared to do so.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
IMHO, the US should warn the Iranian that any unannounced (as in two-week notice or more) live fire exercise within 5 nautical miles of any US carrier will result in the obliteration of the vessels firing the ordinance, the base where they came from and any airfields in the near vicinity of said base that might otherwise support those vessels.

Well stated Jeff..
previous.gif
please run for President of the USA..I'll vote for you!
 

Brumby

Major
I have seen this all over.

These were small, unguided rockets, fired by small craft after the Iranians warned the vessels in the area that they were going to conduct the exercise.

They clearly did it as a propaganda coup, and to try and show that they could do something...anything... in opposition to the US.

But such weapons and craft are not any kind of serious threat to the carrier or its escorts.

IMHO, the US should warn the Iranian that any unannounced (as in two-week notice or more) live fire exercise within 5 nautical miles of any US carrier will result in the obliteration of the vessels firing the ordinance, the base where they came from and any airfields in the near vicinity of said base that might otherwise support those vessels.

There is also an underlying agenda in such actions which is an attempt to exercise extended functional jurisdiction over the straits passage. When UNCLOS was drawn up, the meaning of transit passage (preferred by naval powers) was defined and agreed as opposed to innocent passage (preferred by coastal states). The key is that designated international lanes within the straits passage will not be subject to being innocent and will not be impeded due to procedural reasons. The issue of "spillover threats" were considered in the deliberations at that time and that include occasional increased restrictions such as with the recent example on the pretext of live firing as an attempt to impede transit passage.

I am afraid that the non action on the part of the USN on this occasion will just encourage other forms of bad behaviour in the future to impede transit passage. I agree with your view that a warning should have been made to the Iranians at the time that any attempted live firing will constitute an existential threat and the source of such threat will be eliminated. I recently read in another forum that a US battleship in the 80's was painted when transiting this same straits and the source of the radar was warned to shut it down or else it will be destroyed. The Iranians backed down and shut down the radar.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
Freakin' awe-some if this ends up happening!
French Navy Rafale M Fighters May Conduct Combat Missions From a US Navy CVN in 2017
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is from 2010...
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


"The French have conducted many carrier qualifications (CQs) with U.S. aircraft carriers in the past. However, this is the first time that an engine swap-out with a foreign navy has been done on a U.S. carrier," said Cmdr. Tim Hill, the VFA-32 executive officer and air wing liaison for French interoperability exercises. "This is a big step in working towards the ability to operate a French squadron on a U.S. carrier."


On another board, some former US Navy sailor believe it should not be a problem and the French would likely bring at least one "maintenance workshop container":
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Gerry, can you confirm ?
 
Top