Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Jeff Head said:

My guess is that they will work with a builder (most likely the French, but perhaps others, including India) to design and build a 40,000 ton or so CATOBAR carrier in Brazil. And they will very likely operate Sea Gripens off of that carrier, which are going to be very effective and credible 4.5 generation aircraft. The fact is, the Sea Gripen could (and perhaps will) come aboard with Brazil before the new carrier because they can operate off of the Sao Pualo while she is still in service.

Click to expand...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Brazil has signed a contract for land-based Gripens (for air force - FAB) , not for Sea Gripens ( for naval aviation AvN ) . There is a potential clause in contract about participation in Sea Gripen program, but nothing more than that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far SAAB didn't produce prototype of this plane and they don't have much experience with carrier-based aircraft. Therefore, it would take loot of time to finish this project .

thunderchief said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Brazil has signed a contract for land-based Gripens (for air force - FAB) , not for Sea Gripens ( for naval aviation AvN ) . There is a potential clause in contract about participation in Sea Gripen program, but nothing more than that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far SAAB didn't produce prototype of this plane ... .

Click to expand...

Nobody is getting ahead of themselves.

I did not indicate that any contract for the Sea Gripen had been signed. I also did not indicate that a Sea Gripen is currently flying.

I did indicate that the Brazilians are talking about it with Saab and that Saab is promoting it. As you ureself say, in the contract for the Air Force aircraft there is mention about potential Sea Gripen develepment.

I referred to that and indicated that they are talking about (they are), and that it makes good sense for Brazil.

I went on to say that I beleive ultimately we could easily see Sea Gripens fly for the Brazilians off their carrier. But that will not happen on the basis of a single sale. Saab will have to get more than 24 or so aircraft in order to justify the development.

Will that actually happen? Who knows? With the Indian HAL Tejas carrier version languishing, with the reltive low cost of the gripen, and with other nation's interest, they may land more orders which would allow them to develop it.

Time will tell.

For the full story follow the link below;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The aircraft carrier Constellation, which spent most of its nearly 42 years of service operating out of San Diego Bay, will be scrapped in Texas following a historic tow from its resting place in the Pacific Northwest.

The Navy said Monday it is turning the decommissioned flattop over to International Shipbreaking, Ltd. (ISL), which will use a single ocean-going tugboat to pull "Connie" almost 17,000 miles, from Bremerton, Washington, to its yard in Brownsville, Texas. The 1,088-foot carrier will be towed around the tip of South America because it is too big to slip through the Panama Canal.

Click to expand...

I know many, many, many shipmates that served aboard Constellation. tis' a sad day.. a sad day indeed..

HMS Astute said:

brazil spends only around $31bn on defence, that's about half of what the uk or france spends. i am not very sure brazil can afford more aircraft carriers. they have chosen gripen due to cheaper costs and these aircraft can't deploy on carriers as well.

Click to expand...

This is not entirely true if defence budget was anything to go by then Saudi Arabia should be operating a few carrier strike groups

Brazil may not have the big budget but it certainly can and is operating a carrier and not only are they going to build nuclear attack submarines they are building a whole naval facility for the complete construction and a new naval base to go with it we are not taking about a single SSN here but a whole flotilla

Plus they are in talks with France for a second carrier actually France is in there with Brazil on pretty much everything SSN and carrier building

Brazil is a raising power and in 10 years will field a formidable navy

Jeff Head said:

Nobody is getting ahead of themselves.

I did not indicate that any contract for the Sea Gripen had been signed. I also did not indicate that a Sea Gripen is currently flying.

I did indicate that the Brazilians are talking about it with Saab and that Saab is promoting it. As you ureself say, in the contract for the Air Force aircraft there is mention about potential Sea Gripen develepment.

I referred to that and indicated that they are talking about (they are), and that it makes good sense for Brazil.

I went on to say that I beleive ultimately we could easily see Sea Gripens fly for the Brazilians off their carrier. But that will not happen on the basis of a single sale. Saab will have to get more than 24 or so aircraft in order to justify the development.

Will that actually happen? Who knows? With the Indian HAL Tejas carrier version languishing, with the reltive low cost of the gripen, and with other nation's interest, they may land more orders which would allow them to develop it.

Time will tell.

Click to expand...

Maybe I misunderstood you . Ultimately, everything will depend on Brazilian decision, because I don't think India will buy Sea Gripen . They at least have prototype they are testing (more below) , and even if that fails I feel they would prefer Rafale-N or simply continue with Mig-29K . There was even talk about purchasing F-35B in the future .

As for other countries with carriers, they either want VTOL aircraft or have their own programs .

The naval variant of India's indegenous light combat aircraft (LCA) is due to soon begin ramp trials. Avinash Chander, scientific adviser to the defence minister and director general DRDO, told India Strategic magazine that the LCA-Navy had already done more than 25 test flights from a runway.
NEW DELHI: The naval variant of India's indegenous light combat aircraft (LCA) is due to soon begin ramp trials. Avinash Chander, scientific adviser to the defence minister and director general Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), told India Strategic magazine (

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

) that the LCA-Navy had already done more than 25 test flights from a runway. As these were successful and met the designated parameters, the aircraft will now be deployed at a naval base in Goa to commence ramp flights, probably after the monsoon.

Goa, on the Arabian seafront, has a major naval air station, INS Hansa, where the MiG- 29Ks for Indian aircraft carriers are also located.

The station has a 14-degree ramp along with necessary testing sensors and paraphernalia to monitor the flights and was specifically built as part of the indigenous LCA-Navy development programme. But as it is a national naval asset, it is shared by the MiG-29Ks for training pilots and flight tests. Both the aircraft need the same degree in the ramp, matching the one on INS Vikramaditya, acquired from Russia, and INS Vikrant, now being built at the Kochi shipyard.

Chander said that the flight tests are being conducted with LCA Mark-I to prove certain technologies and to familiarise the naval pilots with them. One aircraft is operational, another is on the anvil and a third will son be available to complete the trials. After that, for full weaponised operations aboard carriers, will come the LCA Mark-II powered by GE 414 engines, according to India Strategic.

The naval variant, being tested from the HAL airport in Bangalore, has a bigger undercarriage that Hindustan Aeronautics has built to facilitate deck landings. The development programme is coordinated by a one-star naval pilot.

Click to expand...

thunderchief said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

Only to add that the Indian Navy wants the modified Tejas Mk II for its aircraft carrier and not the Tejas Mk 1 (Which will be used only to train pilots that too only on shore based factilities).

Tako said:

Only to add that the Indian Navy wants the modified Tejas Mk II for its aircraft carrier and not the Tejas Mk 1 (Which will be used only to train pilots that too only on shore based factilities).

Click to expand...

It has to do something with increased weight of the Naval Tejas, so they want improved engine from Tejas Mk II .

thunderchief said:

It has to do something with increased weight of the Naval Tejas, so they want improved engine from Tejas Mk II .

Click to expand...

I read where the HAL Tejas reaching operational capability has been delayed again.

Sad. The Indians need those aircraft to become opertional and be something that they learn from, gain experience from, and then move on to develop more indegenous aircraft. I do not know how this will impact the Naval variant. But perhaps it will open up more doors for the Sea Gripen.

Again, I do nt believe a Sea Gripen will be built on the strength of 24 aircraft for Brazil alone, no matter how good it would be for Brazil. Saab could not make a profit unless they charged so much for each aircraft at that rate that it would make other options more acceptable.

I do belive the Sea Gripen is a good idea, and I do believe it would be a good aircraft...particularly for Brazil. It's just that more customers have to be found. And most of them are already committed tpo other aircraft.

The US will not go there.

The Chinese will not go there.

The French will not go there, they have their Rafaels.

The UK has picked and is buyng the F-35B.

Russia has already selected the Mig-29K to replace the SU-33s.

Japan would either buy the F-35B or build their own. But for the Sea gripen, they would have to have an arresting system and their current designs do not. So highly unlikely.

South Korea is a possibilit depending on the desing they come up with for their "carrier." Right now, a Dokdo with a ski-jump would still not have an arrestor system..so again, very unlikely.

India has the Mig-29K and will use the Naval Tejas, though troiuble may cause them to look elsewhere...but if they do, it is likely that they will just buy more Mig-29Ks. but still a potential.

Brazil is a definite option.

Australia may go there...but if they do, the F-35B is most likely, again the arresting system is an issue.

Italy has already selected the F-35B.

Spain has not made a final decision, so there is a chance there. But for Spain and Australia, like Japan, Korea, etc...with the Sea Gripen, though they could take off from the ski-jump, they have no arresting system so those options are very unlikely.

So in the end, unbless another nation liek Turkey or someone decides to build carriers, the only really possible candidates are Brazil and India. Both of them together may provide a large enough nomber to make it possible for Saab to prfitably design it, but Brazil alone would not

Ever wonder how arresting gear is installed? Here ya' go...

1) Cut hole in flight deck.
2) Remove old arresting gear.
3) Install new arresting gear.

NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (July 19, 2014) Cmdr. Timothy Tippett, air boss aboard the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72), watches as an arresting gear engine is installed on the flight deck. Abraham Lincoln is undergoing a Refueling Complex Over-Haul(RCOH) at Newport News Shipbuilding. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Brenton Poyser/Released)

Click to expand...

US Army qualifies AH-64E Apaches for deck landings
By: BETH STEVENSONLONDON Source: Flightglobal.com 13:04 30 Jul 2014
The US Army has achieved deck-landing qualification status for its Boeing AH-64E Apache Guardian attack helicopters, following trials on board the US Navy amphibious assault ship USS Peleliu.

The E-variant of the rotorcraft – assigned to the service's 1st Armed Reconnaissance Battalion, 25th Aviation Regiment – qualified during the navy's Rim of the Pacific exercise off the coast of Hawaii on 19 July. The aircraft are normally based at Fort Carson, Colorado.


Attaining the qualification will allow the army to land AH-64Es on USN ships to refuel and rearm, as well as opening up the range of operations the rotorcraft can conduct.

“In the event of conflict, we would be able to deploy our aircraft via a ship to land and be able to operate in a maritime environment,” the service says.

Eight Apaches have been training in Hawaii, but additional evaluations – including exercises further out into the Pacific – are required before they return to Fort Carson in mid-August, the army says.

Click to expand...

Apache Guardians on Deck