Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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Oh, only now I noticed two, but what's the word, straps?? :) ... what are they made of? the pressure they withstand must be enormous

I believe they are nylon, and the technical term is "harness", the harness enables the aircraft without a dedicated launch bar, to be launched by the catapult. The woven nylon has a little built in elasticity for shock absorbtion, and to take up the slack without damaging the heavy aircraft being launched. That certain sailors were able to harness the harness in order to retrieve it, belies the tremendous engineering talent that the USN, allows the freedom to "do their thing", within and under the scope of the Command Structure. I'm more than certain that "Popeye" could likely write an article on that topic and many more...
 
No problem asking questions Jura...none whatsoever.

And Happy Birthday to you! I have you beat by 15 1/2 years. Life is for the living! As long as we seek to hurt no one who is not threatening us, and try to help others along our path. No end to learning though.

I'll keep asking questions here, then. :) As for the birthday (thanks, Jeff!), I'll give myself a present: I'll read about warships which could've been built, but weren't :) one paper dealing with alternative designs of the North Carolina class, the other (which I'll have to locate first, I just know I have it somewhere) describing French plans from the period between the end of WWI and Washington Naval Conference (yes, I prefer battleships over aircraft carriers, which is ridiculous :) but I like those SPEED x ARMAMENT x ARMOR x OTHER factors considerations)
 
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I believe they are nylon, and the technical term is "harness", the harness enables the aircraft without a dedicated launch bar, to be launched by the catapult. The woven nylon has a little built in elasticity for shock absorbtion, and to take up the slack without damaging the heavy aircraft being launched. That certain sailors were able to harness the harness in order to retrieve it, belies the tremendous engineering talent that the USN, allows the freedom to "do their thing", within and under the scope of the Command Structure. I'm more than certain that "Popeye" could likely write an article on that topic and many more...

Air Force Brat, I can't figure you out :) but thanks for the info
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
That is not necessarily true. Aircraft carriers can be used defensively, and historically quite often have been. During World War II particularly when there was a large at sea war the US used them for both. The US hasn't had to do so since, so you see the US using them purely offensively because there is really no one to challenge them.

Actually , even in a great defensive battle of Midway Americans used their fleet carriers offensively . They formed strike packages and struck enemy . Soviet tactics was completely different , they never planned to use Su-33s as attackers . Instead , they would form CAP and wait for the enemy . In this regard , Kuznetsov is more like escort carriers of WW2 .

In simple terms , in American doctrine , aircraft carrier is a sword and AEGIS destroyer or cruiser is a shield (Aegis is a shield of Zeus in Greek mythology ) . In Soviet doctrine , heavy bombers and subs like Oscar II were sword . Kuznetsov-class along with some other platforms would form part of the shield .
 

stack

New Member
Hehehe.

They are made of something that can hold the plane while it is being subjected to the immense pressure of the catapult acceleration.

It is made of something strong.

LOL!

I think there is another vital component in addition to the harness, it is called a "dog bone". There was an excellent documentary where a retired US navy pilot explained how an aircraft is launched. Did not said much about the harness but he explained at length on the importance of the dog bone which holds back the aircraft until it breaks at a pre determined force, thereby the aircraft would be launched. Each type of aircraft would required a very specific type of dog bone. No dog bone, no launch. I wonder if that is still needed after the retirement of harness/bridle system.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Actually , even in a great defensive battle of Midway Americans used their fleet carriers offensively . They formed strike packages and struck enemy . Soviet tactics was completely different , they never planned to use Su-33s as attackers . Instead , they would form CAP and wait for the enemy . In this regard , Kuznetsov is more like escort carriers of WW2 .

In simple terms , in American doctrine , aircraft carrier is a sword and AEGIS destroyer or cruiser is a shield (Aegis is a shield of Zeus in Greek mythology ) . In Soviet doctrine , heavy bombers and subs like Oscar II were sword . Kuznetsov-class along with some other platforms would form part of the shield .
Midway is a case, as I pointed out, where the US Navy was using its carriers to defend Midway. It did not send them offensively off towards Japan to do a seek and destroy mission. That would be pure offensive operations.

Those carrier laid off Midway because they knew the Japanese were coming to them. And the Japanese were on the offensive. And the US knew it, because at that point they had broken the Japanese code. But they did not know the exact locations so they had to send aircraft out to find them. When they did find them, of course they attacked. But they were attacking from a defensive posture.

Now, during the great battle of Leyte Gulf, the US Fast Carriers did go out hunting the Japanese carriers...and the Japanese lured them into to doing that...and Admiral Halsey took the bait. It was a massive and complicated operation the Japanese planned...the biggest naval battle in history.

When Halsey took the bait, as the Japanese planned, it allowed the Japanese force which was tasked with breaking through to the invasion force to do so. And they succeeded in breaking through and would have ravished the anchorage had not the Taffy Escort Carriers and their destroyer escorts put up such a savage fight in the Battle off Samar. As it was, it is the only time a US carrier was ever sunk by open gunfire from Battleships and cruisers. But they put up such a fight...and it was a ruse...that the Japanese Admiral turned around and left, right at the point of accomplishing his objective. He just thought he was fighting a far larger force and felt he could not get through.

So, the doctrine is not so straight forward.

The US has used carriers defensively, and still has the strategy to do so when necessary. And the US Navy practices that strategy in exercises to this day.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Picture of those French straps:
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Actually the correct term is 'Bridle' not harness, and on the French Clemenceau class carriers (ie currently just the Brazillian Sao Paolo) the catapults are British! BS5s to be precise... the shuttle on the deck has to be swapped over between launching the SEMs and Rafales. Previously when the USN had air groups with mixed methods of launching (bridle or nose tow) the catapult shuttle could accomodate both types.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
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Originally Posted by Jura
... what are they made of? the pressure they withstand must be enormous

Actually the actual bridle is made of steel strands. The rope that was used to tether the bridle was nylon rope.
 
Actually , even in a great defensive battle of Midway Americans used their fleet carriers offensively . They formed strike packages and struck enemy . Soviet tactics was completely different , they never planned to use Su-33s as attackers . Instead , they would form CAP and wait for the enemy . In this regard , Kuznetsov is more like escort carriers of WW2 .

... .

never say never, thunderchief, what about the 6.5 tons of Su-33's payload, I doubt you think this would include air-to-air missiles only ... and I think that if a Russian aircraft carrier had been sent to, for example, the Mediterranean, land targets would have been attacked by those Su-33s during a conflict in this area
 
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