thunderchief
Senior Member
Kuznetsov is not a carrier , it is a cruiser (тяжёлый авианесущий крейсер - heavy aircraft carrying cruiser ) . People think it's just semantics - no ,that is designed role of that ship .
Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
- Status
Kuznetsov is not a carrier , it is a cruiser (тяжёлый авианесущий крейсер - heavy aircraft carrying cruiser ) . People think it's just semantics - no ,that is designed role of that ship .
IMHO, it is both.
"Heavy cruiser," is self evident.
"Aircraft carrying,", means it carriers aircraft (in this case helos and fixed wing) which by default makes it an "aircraft carrier."
It's traditional carrier function has been primarily that of fleet air defense for the vessels protecting the submarine forces of the Russian Navy.
But as time has gone on they have leaned more and more towards more traditional aircraft carrier roles.
Now, by all accounts, with the major refit the Kuznetsov is going to soon go through, all pretense will be gone...and with the new Mig-29K multi-role aircraft, and removal of the large SSMs, it will be much more of a traditional aircraft carrier.
Jura The idiot
General
I wish I knew more about aircraft carriers ... I just googled this, quote, To prepare for a takeoff, the flight deck crew moves the plane into position at the rear of the catapult and attaches the towbar on the plane's nose gear (front wheels) to a slot in the shuttle. The crew positions another bar, the holdback, between the back of the wheel and the shuttle (in F-14 and F/A-18 fighter jets, the holdback is built into the nose gear; in other planes, it's a separate piece)., end of quote from Then my question is if it's the towbar, or the holdback, or something else, what the French airplane dropped into the water at time 1:58 on that video??
Something else.
That was a different method of attaching the catapult to the aircraft. There is a sling attached to the aircraft (which you can clearly see on the Super Etendard in the video and on the Phantom II picture Popeye posted) and to the catapult shuttle. When the aircraft clears the deck, the sling detaches and continues on and hits the water.
You can see it doing that in the video at the location you indicated.
Some enterprising deck crews figured out a way t not lose the sling each time back then, as Popeye states. But for the most part, in US service and in French service, the sling was lost each launch.
It's an older method for specific aircraft not designed to specifically "fit" the catapult system as you described. The US stopped using it over 25 years ago. The French still use it for the Super Etendards, but when they are replaced by the Rafael M squadrons, they will stop using it too.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Aircraft carrier is a offensive weapon , power projecting tool . Basically , you embark your aircraft and go to the enemy . Nimitz-class , Vikramaditya , Liaoning ... all serve for that purpose .
Kuznetsov was designed with something totally different in mind . Soviets were well aware that they could not challenge USN & other NATO members in open seas . Therefore , they designed defensive weapon . Kuznetsov-class , like their predecessors Kiev-class , was to defend Soviet submarines (and surface fleet to lesser extent) in waters close to Soviet Union . Powerful P-700 missiles served to keep NATO surface forces at healthy distance .
Kuznetsov was not designed as power projecting tool . Originally , it had almost no air-to-ground weapons : Su-33s could be armed only with few dumb bombs , and Su-25s served only as trainers . Instead , its fighters would patrol and chase occasional NATO aircraft coming into range , its helicopter would scout and hunt subs .
Now , world has changed , so Russia may need more traditional aircraft carrier . Therefore , after refit Kusnetsov might become just that , like its sister-ship Varyag . But it is important to know that it was not designed for that purpose , Soviet design was not a flop or failure - it was deliberate decision completely justified in that time .
Jura The idiot
General
Oh, only now I noticed two, but what's the word, straps??
... what are they made of? the pressure they withstand must be enormous
That is not necessarily true. Aircraft carriers can be used defensively, and historically quite often have been. During World War II particularly when there was a large at sea war the US used them for both. The US hasn't had to do so since, so you see the US using them purely offensively because there is really no one to challenge them.
The Soviets did develop a different doctrine...there is no doubt about that. They were to be used, as I said, to defend their submarine forces, using their aircraft, that they carried (hence aircraft carrier) to do so.
But the US Navy, if faced with a large war with powerful naval adversaries, would use their carriers for both offensive and defensive operations. It has long since developed the doctrine for this, and exercises to this day include those capabilities so they remain trained and ready to do so.
For example, to help defend a large invasion task force. They would do so by having some carriers (like the new LHA America class) stick directly with the invasion ships, and the larger fleet carriers (like the Nimitz class) range out and seek out the forces wanting to attack the invasion force, particularly carrier groups, and eliminating them...and therefore defending the invasion force by doing so.
Agreed. I actually believe we are saying the same thing.
Agreed, but as you say, that is changing.
None of this changes the fact that the Kuznetsov is an aircraft carrier. It carries a lot of aircraft and has the deck, the ski jump and the trap wires to facilitate their take-off and landings. It was just not planned to be used for strike at sea or ground support operations. But it has the inherent capability to do so.
Agreed 100%. I have been saying that from the beginning.
The Soviets, then Russians have used the Kuznetsov for what she was designed for. They placed aircraft on her that were principally outfitted to achieve that mission.
The US has done the same with its carriers for the missions it has intended. And that mission can be either offensive or defensive in nature.
The Kuznetov has the capability of doing both missions too, and the Russians arebe preparing to do outfit her accordingly. With the right strategy and the right aircraft, she could have done it all along...but that was not their intent until now.
Hehehe.
They are made of something that can hold the plane while it is being subjected to the immense pressure of the catapult acceleration.
It is made of something strong.
LOL!
Jura The idiot
General
No problem asking questions Jura...none whatsoever.I ask questions like a two-year-old, but I'll turn 42 tomorrow
And Happy Birthday to you! I have you beat by 15 1/2 years. Life is for the living! As long as we seek to hurt no one who is not threatening us, and try to help others along our path. No end to learning though.
- Status