Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Neutral Zone

Neutral Zone

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Norfolk said:
All the more reason to take the hit, write off the Gorshkov, and build a third new carrier in India. Gorshkov will be lucky if it last 15-20 years in service, maybe less, if it's ever delivered. A third new carrier will last twice that, and infrastructure, maintenance, and training costs will be much eased by having three identical ships. Besides, it would be a much better ship than the Gorshkov.
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If the in service date slips again until after that of Vikrant then the original rationale behind the deal has gone and they might as well pull the plug. As Obi Wan said earlier, the Indians missed a good opportunity with Viraat, it was originally built as an angled deck CTOL carrier and the space for the arrestor gear should still be in there somewhere. A comparatively modest refit could have re-installed the gear, added an optical landing system and marked out the deck in an angled configuration. Viraat could then have been able to operate Mig-29's for carrier qualification and type conversion. You probably wouldn't have been able to have a viable combat air group, but Viraat would have still been able to operate her standard air group. But now it just looks like they'll have to make the best of a bad situation. :(
 
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adeptitus

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Norfolk said:
All the more reason to take the hit, write off the Gorshkov, and build a third new carrier in India. Gorshkov will be lucky if it last 15-20 years in service, maybe less, if it's ever delivered. A third new carrier will last twice that, and infrastructure, maintenance, and training costs will be much eased by having three identical ships. Besides, it would be a much better ship than the Gorshkov.
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IMO the Gorshkov is an expensive insurance policy against delays in new carrier construction. I don't think India has built an A/C before? Since this is the first time there will probably be numerous delays and bug-fixes like any other new weapon platform. The Gorshkov / Vikramaditya will (hopefully) offer immediate operating capability in 2011-2012 time frame.
 
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harryRIEDL

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an interesting articul about the marines on Lusty partularly interesting is how stable the invinsable class is compared with the amphibs even if their twice the tonnage.

i wonder how stable June carlose 2 is going to be could be quite hairy if the island rolls 30 ft.

anyone got any details of gorshovs hanger before and after the upgrade because vicraat is proberly quite competitive compared with Gorskov
 
Obi Wan Russell

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See! Told ya the Marines would love the ski jump! Judging by the rest of the comments I don't think they want to leave! Perhaps the crew of 'Lusty' could break out the spray guns and repaint the AV-8B+s in RN markings and hand out some FAA uniforms to the Leathernecks...

But seriously, the article sheds a lot of light on the differences between RN and USN approaches to operating Harriers at sea, and to the different cultures of the two navies. I think both Navies have a lot to learn from each other, the RN how to operate a large air wing again and the USN how to let their crew 'unwind' after ops!
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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“It’s a great tool that we don’t have,” Bradicich said. “On our ships, there’s no place where you can really unwind, get to know your shipmates on a personal level, and solve disagreements. Our view is that if you have free time, you should be doing something other than hanging around. Here, everyone works just as hard, but they also know how to unwind. It’s a huge philosophical difference.”
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Great article..We all should read it..

The above statement is refering to a bar they have in the wardroom..Nope the USN does not serve liquor. But on an LHA/LHD or CVN there are plenty of places to relax and unwind in privacy without liquor. Most ove those Marines have never been on an CVN and are unaware of the accomidations on a CVN. Trust me they do differ from an LHA/LHD..

As for the sea ramp..I bet you those Marines will lobby NAVSEA about installing a ski ramp...After all the new LHA's will be VSTOL CV's in reality.
 
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adeptitus

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bd popeye said:
As for the sea ramp..I bet you those Marines will lobby NAVSEA about installing a ski ramp...After all the new LHA's will be VSTOL CV's in reality.
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Hi Popeye,

Do you think the Navy might not like the idea of making the smaller LHA's more "carrier like" with improved fixed-wing aircraft operation capability, so it won't give certain politicians any ideas about down-sizing future aircraft carriers?
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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adeptitus said:
Hi Popeye,

Do you think the Navy might not like the idea of making the smaller LHA's more "carrier like" with improved fixed-wing aircraft operation capability, so it won't give certain politicians any ideas about down-sizing future aircraft carriers?
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Most politicans don't know anything about the military. But yet they control the money...

I think the USN does like the smaller CV concept of the new LHA(R) when they come into service. They will allow the USN more freedom wioth it's CVN force. Because those LHA's will probaly be supporting the USMC on the ground.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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No post here in two weeks?? what happened..? Oh well as FuManChu pointed out there was big news in Japan..They launched their DDH16 Helo carrier today..If you click on that link below and check in the little news block you will see a little video of the ship being launched.

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The Maritime Self Defense Force has put to sea a new destroyer that can operate 4 helicopters on deck.

The launching ceremony of the helicopter-carrying destroyer Hyuga was held at a dockyard in Yokohama on Thursday.

The 197-meter-long destroyer has a displacement of 13,500 tons, one of the largest of all the Self Defense Force's naval ships. It has been under construction since last year at a cost of about 870 million US dollars.

Hyuga will function as a helicopter platform for anti-submarine operations. Its bridge is located on the right side of the deck, like that of an aircraft carrier, allowing room for 4 helicopters to lift off and land. Its hanger can house about 7 helicopters.

The Maritime Self Defense Force says the new ship is capable of long missions at sea, and will raise the force's capability for anti-submarine operations.

The new vessel will need another year or so to install missile weapons and electronic devices and will be officially deployed in March 2009.
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Of course judging by the actual size of this ship I feel it will be able to accomodate at least 20-24 SH-60 variants..

Ok..what do all the rest of you CV fans think are the true capablities of this ship??? Jeff, Fu, Obi others...

FuManChu sez;
The Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force's latest "helicopter destroyer" (and first real helicopter carrier), "Hyuga", was launched today!
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1f9c713c6bf051faf3bb19ef6fa8dc71.jpg
 
Finn McCool

Finn McCool

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It's obvious that this ship can carry far more helicopters than the article claims. I mean a Ticonderoga class crusier can carry two (I think) so this ship is obviously able to carry far more than 4 helicopters. That's just ridiculous talk to satisfy politicians.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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bd popeye said:
No post here in two weeks?? what happened..? Oh well as FuManChu pointed out there was big news in Japan..They launched their DDH16 Helo carrier today..If you click on that link below and check in the little news block you will see a little video of the ship being launched.

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Of course judging by the actual size of this ship I feel it will be able to accomodate at least 20-24 SH-60 variants..

Ok..what do all the rest of you CV fans think are the true capablities of this ship??? Jeff, Fu, Obi others...

FuManChu sez;


[qimg]http://www.dezh.de/imghosting/1f9c713c6bf051faf3bb19ef6fa8dc71.jpg[/qimg]
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24+ helos if necessary, though they will probably, for political purposes, sail it around for the first few years, or until a crisis developes and they actually need more, with 4-6 helos embarked.

I have already stated as well that I believe they will ultimately opeated F-35s off of her...or at least clearly be capable of such.

Here are some more pictures:

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Only the Japanese would call that a destroyer...and clearly purely for political purposes IMHO. Nice PARS and with a 16 cell VLS carrying ESSMs, that's 64 ESSMs for self defens. Embarked with a Kongo and an Atago along with a couple of other JMSDF DDGs, they will form a very impressive helo strike group.
 
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