Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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700NAS is the RNs new aircraft flying trials unit, and is only activated when a new aircraft type is entering service. It has a suffix which changes with each aircraft type (eg 700B for the Buccaneer S2, 700P for the Phantom FG1, 700A for the Sea Harrier and 700M for the Merlin) and once flying trials are complete the sqn disbands and it's aircraft and aircrew usually become the core of either the first operational unit to operate the type or it's Headquarters sqn (eg 700A's Sea Harrier FRS1s were passed to 899NAS which reformed the day after 700A disbanded). I would like to see an RN HQ sqn for the F-35B, which would provide an excuse to bring back 899 but at the moment the Lightning HQ/training sqn is scheduled to be 20sqn as it is now for Joint Force Harrier. Whether or not the F-35 passes through the hands of 700sqn on it's way to operational service remains to be seen, no doubt the RAF will try to head off any attempt to do so.
harryRIEDL
New Member
ex gorskhov been delayed for 3 years
Russia 3 Years Behind on India Aircraft Carrier
Russia’s main military shipyard is at least three years behind schedule on a $1.5 billion contract to modernize an aircraft carrier sold to India in 2004, Interfax news agency reported Aug. 1.
Under the contract, Sevmash shipyard in the Arctic port of Severomorsk was due by 2008 to upgrade and re-equip the ship built in 1987 to combine the power of a missile cruiser and capabilities of an aircraft carrier.
Indian media and officials have said the ship, with a squadron of Russian MIG-29 jet fighters onboard, would considerably enhance the firepower of the Indian navy and bring nuclear rival China within range.
India is the only country in South Asia that has an aircraft carrier, INS Viraat, an issue of concern for some of its smaller neighbors. Pakistan and China, with whom India has fought wars, do not have this class of ship.
Interfax quoted an unnamed "high-ranking Sevmash source" as saying that the shipyard’s Director General Vladimir Pastukhov had been fired after failing to meet deadlines.
"The contract is delayed for three years," the source said. "The realistic date ... is now 2011."
India and China are the two biggest buyers of Russian arms, accounting for nearly 90 percent of Russia’s overall annual arms exports of around $5 billion.
Interfax quoted the Sevmash source as saying the problem is due to a miscalculation of the amount of work needed to renovate the ship.
"After a more detailed examination was conducted, it became clear that the ship’s technological condition is awful and that money allocated for the renovation is not enough," he said.
at this rate the CVF will be in service before gorshov
Russia 3 Years Behind on India Aircraft Carrier
Russia’s main military shipyard is at least three years behind schedule on a $1.5 billion contract to modernize an aircraft carrier sold to India in 2004, Interfax news agency reported Aug. 1.
Under the contract, Sevmash shipyard in the Arctic port of Severomorsk was due by 2008 to upgrade and re-equip the ship built in 1987 to combine the power of a missile cruiser and capabilities of an aircraft carrier.
Indian media and officials have said the ship, with a squadron of Russian MIG-29 jet fighters onboard, would considerably enhance the firepower of the Indian navy and bring nuclear rival China within range.
India is the only country in South Asia that has an aircraft carrier, INS Viraat, an issue of concern for some of its smaller neighbors. Pakistan and China, with whom India has fought wars, do not have this class of ship.
Interfax quoted an unnamed "high-ranking Sevmash source" as saying that the shipyard’s Director General Vladimir Pastukhov had been fired after failing to meet deadlines.
"The contract is delayed for three years," the source said. "The realistic date ... is now 2011."
India and China are the two biggest buyers of Russian arms, accounting for nearly 90 percent of Russia’s overall annual arms exports of around $5 billion.
Interfax quoted the Sevmash source as saying the problem is due to a miscalculation of the amount of work needed to renovate the ship.
"After a more detailed examination was conducted, it became clear that the ship’s technological condition is awful and that money allocated for the renovation is not enough," he said.
at this rate the CVF will be in service before gorshov
Neutral Zone
Junior Member
Not only that, INS Vikrant is scheduled to enter service in 2012. If this report about Gorshkov is true, the the Indian Navy could be in a situation in which they could be trying to get 2 large and complex warships into service and get their complements trained up almost simultaneously. This could cause a big scandal in India, why wasn't Gorshkov subjected to "a more detailed examination," before India commited to the project?
harryRIEDL
New Member
its a right scandal gorskov isn't even a very good carrier when it joins it is unsuited to STOBAR and got possibly the worst designed carrier deck in service and shouldn't have been bought in 1st place the Indians should have just kept on to Vircaat till the Indigenous aircraft carrier built which is a much better design which is an enlarged Cavour.
not convinced by STOBAR too many sacrifices for not enough benefits over STOVL and not as good as CATOBAR .
i expect their may be more delays
The Indians may well find it is quicker and cheaper to refit Viraat with arrestor wires and projector sights if they want to get the mig 29s in service on time. Viraat (as Hermes) used ot be a CTOL carrier so fitting arrestor gear shouldn't be too hard and she could then provide the training needed to bring the Mig pilots up to standard. That might ease the issue of bringing the two other carriers into service, at least give them a head start. The whole Mig 29/Stobar/ Gorshkov descision was more political than practical and no doubt some in the IN are regretting that now. Still I expect they will show their usual professional spirit and maintain the high standards in seeing the project through, however belatedly.
This is not the preferred course of the Indian Navy, but bd popeye makes a good point. If, as reports suggest, Gorshkov is to be delayed three more years and that its condition is much worse than expected, one or two British "Invincible" class carriers could help take some of the strain off of the ex-"Hermes". Mind you, I don't know how long it would take to bring an "Invincible" class carrier back into service or how crewing one or even two such carriers would affect or disrupt the manning and training of the new carriers due to come into service in the next decade. A short-term fix may end up causing some long-term pain. I imagine though, that the Brits would be willing to send a carrier (or maybe even two) relatively cheaply to India, and the two have had great success in the past in such projects.
As for the Gorshkov: to be honest, India may be well advised to cut its losses here, if possible, cancel the Gorshkov reconstruction, and scrounge in order to build a third Indigenous Aircraft Carrier themselves. Russia is jacking up prices after the fact and greatly delaying deliveries, as their armaments industries just don't seem to be quite up to the job. Cancelling the Gorshkov is a LOT of money lost, and will have effects on relations with Russia, but perhaps, given the Gorshkov's questionable material condition and the great delay and further expense involved in pursuing the project to its completion, it may be making the best of what seems to be an increasingly difficult situation.
D
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I'm sure we could flog them one of our Invincibles for a reasonable price - HMS Invincible is currently in reserve and unlikely to come out of it. Then again I have no idea how much life is left in the girl for the Indian Navy to exploit.
Neutral Zone
Junior Member
It may come to that but personally I think that as they've spent so much money on it so far they might as well bite the bullet and write the Russians another cheque. There may also be steep penalty clauses in the contract if India wanted to back out. The whole business has the appearance of a complete fiasco and I get the feeling that Russia has taken India for a ride on this project. As Harry mentioned above, they're not even getting a particularly capable carrier, the illustrations and models of Vikramaditya as completed look ridiculously cramped and contrived. This ship will have a maximum air group of 30 fixed and rotary wing aircraft, the same as the slightly smaller Vikrant class ships! Of course had things gone to plan they would have got a bargain, but now it looks like a very bitter lesson.
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