Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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Mr T
Senior Member
Thanks, very nice indeed!
It will be interesting to see whether Harriers or Tornadoes are retired early. It would make sense for it to be the latter, given that it would save more money and allow the RN to keep the experience of operating fighters. No point in having carriers (which we will do, they're well under construction) if you can't fly birds off them!
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I really like these RN CVFs. They will be very capable..
I'm curious though.. With a crew of only 1,500(600 ships company) including air group how will they keep it clean? A smaller crew will mean less clutter and dirt but still..take it from me ships get dirty..
I'm curious though.. With a crew of only 1,500(600 ships company) including air group how will they keep it clean? A smaller crew will mean less clutter and dirt but still..take it from me ships get dirty..
Re: cleaning the ship.
I remember reading a book about HMS Hermes which, during the 70s was converted from a fixed wing strike carrier to a Commando Carrier (LPH). After a few years she was re roled to ASW which basically meant swapping troop carrying Wessex helos for sonar equipped Sea Kings. One senior member of the crew remarked on the change of role, that he would "Miss those 800 strong cleaning parties we used to embark..." The new carriers are designed to act as Commando Carriers as well (I prefer the term to the rather sterile LPH) and can do so at the same time as operating at least part of the regular air group. My gut feeling is the ships will often deploy in such manner, part Strike carrier and part Commando carrier, so that should trouble brew whilst out on deployment they are ready for whatever eventuality. If the carrier is required for the strike role then the Booties can disembark to other ships of the task force and then back to the UK, or vice versa the Fixed wing aircraft can disembark to make more room for Booties, Wokkas and Junglies. In the meantime they can cruise the oceans in multi role format delivering a lot of (varying varieties of) Bang for the Bucks!
The RN has been moving to a different model of manning for some decades now, with tasks such as deep cleaning of the ship subcontracted out to private companies who 'blitz' the ship whenever it comes into port. The crew still carries out day to day cleaning but the long term burden is reduced. A lot of forward planning goes into this sort of thing, in terms of the ships design itself so that large areas can be cleaned by as few people as can be spared. Heck, when I was much younger (21) I worked for a few months as a school cleaner, and I was responsible for cleaning a huge two storey block and only had two hours to do it each night. This is the 21st Century after all, you don't scrub floors by hand!
A few more pics, plus for comparison a recent pic of the USS gerald Ford under construction in the US:
I remember reading a book about HMS Hermes which, during the 70s was converted from a fixed wing strike carrier to a Commando Carrier (LPH). After a few years she was re roled to ASW which basically meant swapping troop carrying Wessex helos for sonar equipped Sea Kings. One senior member of the crew remarked on the change of role, that he would "Miss those 800 strong cleaning parties we used to embark..." The new carriers are designed to act as Commando Carriers as well (I prefer the term to the rather sterile LPH) and can do so at the same time as operating at least part of the regular air group. My gut feeling is the ships will often deploy in such manner, part Strike carrier and part Commando carrier, so that should trouble brew whilst out on deployment they are ready for whatever eventuality. If the carrier is required for the strike role then the Booties can disembark to other ships of the task force and then back to the UK, or vice versa the Fixed wing aircraft can disembark to make more room for Booties, Wokkas and Junglies. In the meantime they can cruise the oceans in multi role format delivering a lot of (varying varieties of) Bang for the Bucks!
The RN has been moving to a different model of manning for some decades now, with tasks such as deep cleaning of the ship subcontracted out to private companies who 'blitz' the ship whenever it comes into port. The crew still carries out day to day cleaning but the long term burden is reduced. A lot of forward planning goes into this sort of thing, in terms of the ships design itself so that large areas can be cleaned by as few people as can be spared. Heck, when I was much younger (21) I worked for a few months as a school cleaner, and I was responsible for cleaning a huge two storey block and only had two hours to do it each night. This is the 21st Century after all, you don't scrub floors by hand!
A few more pics, plus for comparison a recent pic of the USS gerald Ford under construction in the US:
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USS Gerald Ford CVN 78 aug1 2010 4851898510_8b80f661f9_b.jpg
Thanks Obi Wan..you are indeed wise as Yoda has foretold..
I know that some of the mundane work on board USN ships when in their homeport is done by civilian contractors. This has been on going for more than 10 years. By mundane work I mean Mess attendents, working parties to on load stores.
Mr T
Senior Member
I wonder how many more years it will be before Japan and South Korea start building aircraft carriers. It won't be in the immediate future, but maybe 10-15 years?
I personally see the Dokdos and Hyugas as intermediate steps to the aquisition of large deck strike carriers, with a view to countering the potential threat from China (ex-Varyag and future developments). These ships in themselves provide a lot of real capability in their officially stated roles, and a lot of potential capability via possible F-35B purchases in the future. They don't have to actually buy any aircraft, and can maintain that these ships are not 'offensive' strike carriers, whilst providing a lot of useful experience in the operation of large aviation capable vessels. I would be very surprised if those nations did not conduct excercises where they simulate operating a sqn of strike fighters from the decks (from the POV of the ops room anyway). If China doesn't field a carrier force then these ships remain helo carriers and the region remains balanced, but if a threat is percieved then it is easier to and quicker to field a force of Lightning IIs to deploy from your existing small flat tops than to build a carrier from scratch. Modifying them with ski jumps is not difficult, as a ski jumps a simple steel structure with no moving parts, a few months to install if that. Thes ships are less than ideal, but then so was Invincible during the Falklands war, and that didn't turn out to badly...
tomcat21
New Member
Brazilian Navy gets it started with AEW aircraft!
Well its been confirmed. The Brazilian Aircraft Carrier will get tankers and AEW aircraft! According to an article in AIR FORCES MONTHLY (October 2010 Issue), they have confirmed that Brazil has purchased EX-USN C-1 Trader airframes, Ex Australian and Uruguayan airframes for conversion into AEW planes and Tanker aircraft.
I don't know the specifics of equipment in terms of avionics, but all the planes are to upgraded to S-2T Turbo Tracker configuration with Honeywell TPE 331-14GR engines. They are purchasing 9 airframes, 2 for tanker conversion to refuel the AF-1 Skyhawks, and 3 for AEW. I can assume that the rest will be for spares or cargo duties. The AEW radar requirement is to be a range of 250 miles at 25,000 feet. Life time for the airframes is to be 10 years. They hope to have them ready by 2011 and 2012.
All the work is being done with Embraer in Brazil with assistance from Marsh Aviation. A company I am familiar with. I am curious though if Brazil has finished with its upgrade and refurbishment of the AF-1 Skyhawks. Rumor has it they are to be equipped with avionics similar to the A-1's or F-5's of the airforce, and armed with Python 4 short range AAM's, and DERBY medium range AAM's. Can anyone confirm that.
Well its been confirmed. The Brazilian Aircraft Carrier will get tankers and AEW aircraft! According to an article in AIR FORCES MONTHLY (October 2010 Issue), they have confirmed that Brazil has purchased EX-USN C-1 Trader airframes, Ex Australian and Uruguayan airframes for conversion into AEW planes and Tanker aircraft.
I don't know the specifics of equipment in terms of avionics, but all the planes are to upgraded to S-2T Turbo Tracker configuration with Honeywell TPE 331-14GR engines. They are purchasing 9 airframes, 2 for tanker conversion to refuel the AF-1 Skyhawks, and 3 for AEW. I can assume that the rest will be for spares or cargo duties. The AEW radar requirement is to be a range of 250 miles at 25,000 feet. Life time for the airframes is to be 10 years. They hope to have them ready by 2011 and 2012.
All the work is being done with Embraer in Brazil with assistance from Marsh Aviation. A company I am familiar with. I am curious though if Brazil has finished with its upgrade and refurbishment of the AF-1 Skyhawks. Rumor has it they are to be equipped with avionics similar to the A-1's or F-5's of the airforce, and armed with Python 4 short range AAM's, and DERBY medium range AAM's. Can anyone confirm that.
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