Air war: F18s vs. PLAAF

Popeye, I'm afraid the subtlety was lost, both tactical in if it were to happen for real and figuratively in the post…. But I think Walmart might be the fly in your logic. God Save Fenway Park…

I hope it does not happen for real. I hope PRC and ROC can find a peaceful co-existence and a democratic reunification. I’ve been in divided countries before, lived in FRG in the 80s, spent some time in East Germany - wasn't pretty and it was the supposed "oasis" of Eastern Europe at the time. A people divided is wrong…

Sadly the military of the PRC won’t be hurling weapon specification quotes at the other side in a conflict.

Popeye, I'm afraid the subtlety was lost, both tactical in if it were to happen for real and figuratively in the post…. But I think Walmart might be the fly in your logic. God Save Fenway Park

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Yes it was. Don't forget my personal favorite Yankee Stadium...

Sadly the military of the PRC won’t be hurling weapon specification quotes at the other side in a conflict.

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Very true..If any conflict ever does arise the PRC's "gear better not be queer"..for their own sake. Because Uncle Sam won't be playing any games.

The Chinese side understands this, but if the American side is deluded into thinking it will be a one-sided Iraqi Freedom affair, it will be a miscalculation that is costly to everybody

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I woould never under estimate the Chinese ablity to fight and fight hard with no mercy. I don't think any US war planners do either. But don't under estimate the US either.

I think this is a bit pointless, as air combat involves so much factors. Arguing about hypothesized scenario with specs of planes is just bogus. Besides, the PLA has more tricks up their sleeves then u will ever imagine, not even the Pentagon knows exactly what's going on, what makes u think u guys do?

bd popeye said:

Yes it was. Don't forget my personal favorite Yankee Stadium...

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Dem Dar be Fightin' Words! A more intense conflagaration than any punt Cross Strait Issue --- Congrats on Damon, preay he hits the cutoff man :rofl:

Seacraft said:

Dem Dar be Fightin' Words! A more intense conflagaration than any punt Cross Strait Issue --- Congrats on Damon, preay he hits the cutoff man :rofl:

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Dat bum couldn't hit ah cutoff man on his best day..He is overpaid!ff Oopps!!!

I think this is a bit pointless, as air combat involves so much factors. Arguing about hypothesized scenario with specs of planes is just bogus. Besides, the PLA has more tricks up their sleeves then u will ever imagine, not even the Pentagon knows exactly what's going on, what makes u think u guys do?

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I agree. With the first part In fact I said;

Actually there's really no point to this discussion for me any longer because opinions are like assholes..everybody's got one

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BUT afterall I am Big Daddy Popeye. And I have 20 years experience in the USN. How much time did you do in anyone's military? Are you a student or just a military buff?

I do know much of the capablities of the US. Believe you me the US has trick or two up their sleeves also...If you could elaborate..Just what sort of tricks does the PRC have up it's sleeve? We don't want you to release any classified info...We would not want the PAP or anyone like that tracking you down.

All sarcasm aside I'm sure the PLA has some top secrect stuff..but there geer better not be queer. Because Uncle Sam will not play around.

that's my point, no one knows what they are doing in their labs...for example, the development of the J-10 wasn't publicize(in the US) till one of the prototype flew, and the hype didnt start till 3 to 4 years(as far as i remember). i m sure u r knowledgable with USN equipment and capabilities, but no one in this forum has the equal experience and knowledge with the Chinese miliitary. as for the tricks up PLA's sleeves, after growing up in China ,seeing that government in action and how chinese military planner follow sun tzu's art of war, i would conjecture that their showcase units are just tip of the iceberg. as to specific systems, that's for them to know and for the pentagon to find out.

UCSDAE said:

that's my point, no one knows what they are doing in their labs...for example, the development of the J-10 wasn't publicize(in the US) till one of the prototype flew, and the hype didnt start till 3 to 4 years(as far as i remember). i m sure u r knowledgable with USN equipment and capabilities, but no one in this forum has the equal experience and knowledge with the Chinese miliitary. as for the tricks up PLA's sleeves, after growing up in China ,seeing that government in action and how chinese military planner follow sun tzu's art of war, i would conjecture that their showcase units are just tip of the iceberg. as to specific systems, that's for them to know and for the pentagon to find out.

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Dude, anybody that lives in San Diego is all right by me. I lived there for 26 years. Welcome to the forum!

I've asked and posted many times about who among us in this forum really knows waht the PRC is up to in their military. I know I don't. The best info seems to be at SinoDefence.com. Constant reading and searching does help. But the real truth is tucked away in the PRC.

Interesting discussion. I just skimmed through the past few pages, maybe some of this stuff is already talked about but I'll talk about it anyway because I like to hear myself talk

About those SEAD missions from the F/A-18E/Fs and Prowlers

What if those SAM sites are hidden behind an obstacle and are facing inland? Prowler won't pick it up, the -18s won't pick it up either until they fly past that obstacle and notice some hot spikes on their tail...

And as for F/A-18E/Fs vs. PLAAF. Although the -18s have a good radar and good missiles, they'd still have some big disadvantages in a BVR fight due to their lack of raw performance. Yes, speed, climb, acceleration, these also play a role in BVR too, not just dogfighting. Higher speed + altitude gives your missiles higher initial kinetic energy, making them fly farther. (IIRC a typical missile with 50-60km max range fired at low altitude only flies like 10km) Plus, you need high speed and high turn rate to turn and run quickly to avoid missiles coming at you.

Superbug is just way too slow and bulky. I read once somewhere they were flying in formation with a bunch of Raptors at some air display and they need to go full afterburner just to keep up with the Raptors. I also read that they cannot even go supersonic with payload and afterburner at 10000 feet! The fuel efficiency for the F-18E/F is also pretty bad. They're like flying bricks

Another thing which is completely forgotten here is the question of f18 C/D. They still form a majority of planes on USN carriers. If there was a war tomorrow or even next year, how would those older planes fare against PLAAF? I believe JSF can not come soon enough for USN and as long as it has to rely on f18 c/d it may find itself losing the edge over certain possibly enemies. if i remember correctly, some 500 or so f18 e/f will be built altogether. So even when production ceases there'll still be la fair share of old f18s serving alongside superbugs on any given carrier, before jsf comes in service and fully replaces old f18s, which right now looks like it wont happen before 2012-2015 time period. Again, how does today's f18 c/d fare against today's plaaf's aircraft?

And another thing. Yes, theres whole bunch of variables to consider in combat. But many of them are simply not quantifyable. Therefore we can discuss it till hell freezes over who has better pilots and by how much, ECM and ECCM abilities of both sides, etc. Those things are just not easy to break down into numbers but in order to use them, you should all at least try to make some numbers out of them. like pilot quality gives 0.9 modifier for USN and 0.8 for PLAAF, and so on. Or 0.1, whatever. It may sound like making this into a game but its not. That's how even most serious simulations are done. Everything must be given a certain value to be input into equation. Sure, some values we come up with may be way off, but its still better than nothing. These discussions here are mostly for fun anyway.

The typical carrier airwing consists of three FA-18 squadrons, one F-18E/Fsquadron, one S-3 squadron, one EA-6B squadron, one E-2C squadron, and one helicopter squadron. When the JSF comes on-line, it will embark 2 C variant and 1 STOVL variant, operated by the USMC. This will replace the 3 F/A18 squadrons. The F-18E/F will stay on board.

This squadron is smaller than it was during the cold war because of the lower threat level that the CSG operates in. Though the PLA has formidable striking power, it still does not possess the threat level of a single backfire regiment armed with Kitchen anti-ship missiles.