Air war: F18s vs. PLAAF

Single regiment of backfires with kitchen missiles would pose a valid threat to the carrier group, yes, as the 20 backfires could launch 60 kitchens. But, would they all survive long enough to launch those missiles? How many would be intercepted by f18s?

I would argue that whole PLAAF with all its fighters and bombers does indeed provide a bigger threat to a carrier.

Totoro said:

Single regiment of backfires with kitchen missiles would pose a valid threat to the carrier group, yes, as the 20 backfires could launch 60 kitchens. But, would they all survive long enough to launch those missiles? How many would be intercepted by f18s?

I would argue that whole PLAAF with all its fighters and bombers does indeed provide a bigger threat to a carrier.

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On paper yes you are correct. But the PLAAF has not demonstrated the capability to operate and coordinate in such a strike. At their peak, Backfire regiments were supported by Blinder Jammers, Bear D recon, ROSAT sattellites to help them find the carrier. They also held exercises that demostrate capabilities to engage US carrier groups thousands of miles from shore.

PLAAF has yet to demonstrate similar capabilities of tracking, coordination, support, and strike. To the best of my knowledge, the J-11, has minimal air to ground capability. In fact most of the PLAAF strikers are older aircraft.

Those Backfires are pretty fast and the Kitchens also have a VERY long range. That's why the F-14 + Pheonix was there but now they're retired. Those slowpoke F-18s with shorter range AMRAAMs won't be able to do as much to them Backfires before they launch their Kitchens.

PLAAF doesn't have such bombers. They have JH-7 which could also get to the scene pretty fast but they don't have the deady long range Kitchens to boast with.

this is getting off topic....
but we have to assume carrier group is located and targeted. and compare two scenarios from that point onwards. otherwise the initial claim is moot as it is very clear 20 backfires are useless without supporting assets to locate targets for them. And of course china cant compete with the satellite network russia has.

Just because chinese never did show they can run multi hundred aircraft attacks does not mean they can not do it. perhaps they'd do it relatively poorly and not very efficiently. perhaps not. in any case, just the fact that there are fighters to deal with the f18s and thus open the road for any kind of remaining attack aircraft is enough to guarantee bigger success. I am not saying chinese wouldnt suffer huge losses in such an endevour, they would, but in the end the carrier would be hit, something that can not be said with same certainity for a 20 plane (60 kitchen) run at the same carrier group. And anyway, even the newest variants of kitchens are some 15-20 years behind todays chinese anti ship missiles.

Totoro said:

Just because chinese never did show they can run multi hundred aircraft attacks does not mean they can not do it. perhaps they'd do it relatively poorly and not very efficiently. perhaps not. in any case, just the fact that there are fighters to deal with the f18s and thus open the road for any kind of remaining attack aircraft is enough to guarantee bigger success.

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If they were to do it over water and at night in a scenario of 50 or 100 or more aircraft, you think someone else would know?? Would the PLAAF be able to pull off all of that coordination, get the aircraft in the air, simulate a strike, and make it back without someone else figurin' what they done??? Planes from the different services needing to jointly coordinate and completing each of their roles??

of course not. not even the u.s could try to fly 50 f-18s into iraq and not expect to be detected(unless iraqi radars were already kncked out). of couse the is fairly simple in an exercise, real war is different.

It seems like we need to have context in this thread.
F-18 EF vs PLAAF is such a broad category.
In what respect are we talking about? Air defence, air superiority, attack, all of the above. Currently, there is NO PLAAF aircraft that can match the F-18 EF hornet's jack of all trades but master of none capability. There are other aircraft that are better than it in air defence, air superiority, and attack role. But there is NO single aircraft that can do all of those better than the hornet. That is its strength.

The hornet can "self-escort" itself to the target, as has been done before in combat. In GW1, 2 C/D hornets flew towards their targets, shot down 2 Mig 21 that were sent to intercept them, then proceed to bomb their targets. PLAAF needs to airframes to do that.

Context is this: 2 squadrons of f18 c/d and 1 squadron of f18 e/f versus a number of PLAAF fighters. (i left one squadron on the carrier, for defence) F18s have for a mission to attack some target, which would mean at least some of them carry ground attack weeapons. but plaaf scrambles its fighters to intercept. lets try several scenarios, one where theres same number of plaaaf planes sent to intercept (i suggest 3 squadrons of j11) and one where a far larger force is sent to intercept). just please remember to quantify any/every variable you're gonna use in these hypothetical scenarios.

IDonT said:

It seems like we need to have context in this thread.
F-18 EF vs PLAAF is such a broad category.
In what respect are we talking about? Air defence, air superiority, attack, all of the above. Currently, there is NO PLAAF aircraft that can match the F-18 EF hornet's jack of all trades but master of none capability. There are other aircraft that are better than it in air defence, air superiority, and attack role. But there is NO single aircraft that can do all of those better than the hornet. That is its strength.

The hornet can "self-escort" itself to the target, as has been done before in combat. In GW1, 2 C/D hornets flew towards their targets, shot down 2 Mig 21 that were sent to intercept them, then proceed to bomb their targets. PLAAF needs to airframes to do that.

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so youre saying the f-18 can just fly into chinese airspace, and fight su-27s while fully loaded with weapons, and simply shoot down them down?
two things:

the j-11/su-27 is much more capable of fighting than a mig-21. if the f-18 is loaded with weapons, i doubt it can actually fight a j-11. the j-11 would be flying all around the f-18, with the pilot saying "you cant get me!!"

china will have more j-11s on ready alert than iraq had mig-21s. dont expect two flankers. expect 6-8

this really undermines the true "self escort ability of the f-18"

the j-11 does not need to outperfrom the f-18 in all those aspects either. as long as it can be a more capable air superiority aircraft(under these circumstances, it is) than the f-18, it will win. were not talking j-11 vs f-18, its simply if j-11s can INTERCEPT f-18s.

Totoro said:

Context is this: 2 squadrons of f18 c/d and 1 squadron of f18 e/f versus a number of PLAAF fighters. (i left one squadron on the carrier, for defence) F18s have for a mission to attack some target, which would mean at least some of them carry ground attack weeapons. but plaaf scrambles its fighters to intercept. lets try several scenarios, one where theres same number of plaaaf planes sent to intercept (i suggest 3 squadrons of j11) and one where a far larger force is sent to intercept). just please remember to quantify any/every variable you're gonna use in these hypothetical scenarios.

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To make things fair, lets also assume that it is not a deep penetration strike, say a high value target on Hainan Island for example. How many fighters are on Hainan Island?