51c conterversy

the 51c will probably carry a helicopter on the landing platform rather than a hanger. a ka-28 is probably too big, so a z-9 would be used. it all depends on whether the plan really intends for the 51cs to use their yj-62s at maximum range.

by the way, does the 51c have a similar par to the 52c, or is the radar more 30N6E oriented?

MIGleader said:

the 51c will probably carry a helicopter on the landing platform rather than a hanger. a ka-28 is probably too big, so a z-9 would be used. it all depends on whether the plan really intends for the 51cs to use their yj-62s at maximum range.

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Seeing as the Ka-28 is actually 2 meters shorter than the Z-9, and since weight is most likely irrelevant, they can fit a Ka-28 there if they do intent to have a chopper on it.

But I dont think any warships have choppers stationed onboard without having a hanger. The chopper would be teared up by the elements pretty fast.

Su-34 said:

051C is not intended to carry helicopters. Their role is to escort a future PLAN Carrier Group or a Fleet Task Force comprising of nuclear and non-nuclear subs, as well as frigates and destroyers of other classes. However, the 052C and other future PLAN Destroyer classes WILL carry helicopters. With 051C escorting PLAN subs, any P3-C Orion within range of 051C's Rif-M SAMs will be shot down easily, so that the Orions will no longer threaten PLAN subs.

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I doubt the 051Cs would be assigned to escort submarines. Its sorta ruins the stealth of the sub...

Rather than having surface ships to escort submarines, wide fighter sweeps over the sea is the way to go for protecting sea areas from Orions and other naval strike/recon planes.

Not to mention that no Orion pilot would risk its plane by going inside the range of a AA-ship.

the helicopter platform is only for vertical replacement things and vip transportation...its not inteded to carry a aircrafts of its own. Ultimately these migth end up as carrier escorts, so no exact need for individual aircrafts in carrier task group...

Gollevainen said:

the helicopter platform is only for vertical replacement things and vip transportation...its not inteded to carry a aircrafts of its own. Ultimately these migth end up as carrier escorts, so no exact need for individual aircrafts in carrier task group...

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Guys, Gollevainen is correct. There is no room for that helo. There is no hangar. That helo pad is for vertreps(vertical replenishment) and transportation as "G" says. You just could not leave the helo straped down on the aft helo pad. It would corrode very easily. The only way you could have ahelo on board is remove those aft missiles and install a hangar on that space...Besides what sort of full time ASW helo does the PLAN have anyway ????

bd popeye said:

The only way you could have ahelo on board is remove those aft missiles and install a hangar on that space...Besides what sort of full time ASW helo does the PLAN have anyway ????

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I have to agree here, there really is no room for helo space and support equipment. To answer one of your questions popeye, right now the PLAN does have a full-time ASW helicopter in the Ka-28. But from what I understand they are solely used with the Sovremenny platforms. And yes, Z-9 has seen some tests in ASW exercises but it's not known how successful they were and if they will field a true ASW capability for PLAN's newer surface ships.

is the ka-28 also feilded with the 52cs and 52bs? 54s? around 6-8 were purchased originally, so thats enough for one on each ship.

ka-28 alone is not enough to feild a good asw ability. perhaps som ka-31, and towed sonar will.

if theres no helicopter, the radar on the 51c better have good range.

MIGleader said:

is the ka-28 also feilded with the 52cs and 52bs? 54s? around 6-8 were purchased originally, so thats enough for one on each ship.

ka-28 alone is not enough to feild a good asw ability. perhaps som ka-31, and towed sonar will.

if theres no helicopter, the radar on the 51c better have good range.

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interestingly, this is an article comparing ka-28 to Z-9C.

Either way, ka-28 is old technology too. EC120, CMH and EC175 could all be used as ASW platforms in the future. The latest DDGs starting with 052B should all have Towed array sonar. I don't think 054 is current using ka-28.

Anyhow, I guess not having a helicopter isn't entire horrible, since China doesn't have enough naval helicopters to fill up the hangars of the different ships.

Anyhow, I guess not having a helicopter isn't entire horrible, since China doesn't have enough naval helicopters to fill up the hangars of the different ships

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For the PLAN I think it's horrible.

You fellows know that I'm a "China watcher". I love to read what the PRC is up in all aspects of it's culture. But espically the PLAN. But when it comes to ASW face it guys the PLAN lags way behind. Those admirals should be screaming about getting a state of the art ASW helo and ASW equipment on their ships. Who knows? They may well be doing that right now. But right now what the PLAN has ASW wise is substandard.

In any conflict with almost any other nation the PLAN would be at an disadvantage in ASW. And could suffer some terible losses if the ASW issue is not addresed.

poeye, the thing is, taiwan does not pose any kind of threat to the plan with submarines. 4 subs, two from ww2. a single kilo can handle all of em.

i too, am really surprised at the lack of good asw measures on any of chinas warships. i thought china considered submarines fro mthe u.s a great threat. perhaps most of the money went to air defence, and after the plans air defence improves enough, money will be redirected to asw.

bd popeye said:

For the PLAN I think it's horrible.

You fellows know that I'm a "China watcher". I love to read what the PRC is up in all aspects of it's culture. But espically the PLAN. But when it comes to ASW face it guys the PLAN lags way behind. Those admirals should be screaming about getting a state of the art ASW helo and ASW equipment on their ships. Who knows? They may well be doing that right now. But right now what the PLAN has ASW wise is substandard.

In any conflict with almost any other nation the PLAN would be at an disadvantage in ASW. And could suffer some terible losses if the ASW issue is not addresed.

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sorry, I mean it's not horrible that it doesn't have a hangar, since it doesn't have a helicopter to put onto it to begin with, lol.

As for ASW, what China needs is to develop better dipping sonar that it can put on it's newer generation helicopters. We can't keep on purchasing ka-28, since it is also quite an old design and is a little too heavy. If the european embargo is lifted, I think getting an ASW copter like NH-90 would for sure be on top of China's purchasing list.