51c conterversy

Oh, my mistake....

you'r welcome, thats why we talk about ....
Missile guidance helicopter, like the Ka-25 Hormone-B should be used by Sovremeny Type,
ASW choppers will work with the Type 052B Guangzhou Class DDGs
AEW choppers would be a great supplimenting for Type 051C Air Defence and Type 052C Lanzhou Class DDGs - the Russian-made RIF-M/S-300F long-range air defence missiles of 051 C would be much better work by these supporting ....

but all these helos (and AEW planes) could also operate out from carriers (and the DDGs could use the "Hangar-place" to load up more air defence missiles);

Let us follow these reflection:

AEW Helos ar not needed, when the 051 C and and 052 C ar operating in home waters, controlled by land based (fixed wing) airborne early warning (AEW) aircrafts - but in this aerea the PLAAF should have enough power so the Air Defence DDGs ar not needed.
Air Defence DDGs are needed outside of the aerea, which is controlled by land based planes. Air Defence DDGs ar to be used in blue water away from home.
And they should have long-range detection of threats, including airborne threats such as fixed wing aircraft and helicopters, complementary to the long-range air defence missiles.

Now if the DDGs themselve don't have a hanger to transport AEW helos, these helos (or - may be better - AEW planes) should be transported by other ships. One type of ship, carriing helos and planes is in Dalian shipyard, its the Varjag ....
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=529

thats what I suspect - the 051 C class air defence missile destroyer at Dalian Shipyard ar usefull in combination with a carrier, they could be part of the future carrier battle group :china:

Does anyone have better ideas ???

MIGleader said:

the 51c is causing alot of confusion for me
first off, are the chinese building one or two? ive only seen one at a time, eept for when some picture showed two hulls. other picstures show an unpainted 51c, even though these pictures came out after picture which showed a 51c painted 115
why would the plan commision one of class? doesnt it normally do two?

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If we look at the pattern of recent PLAN ship acquisitions:
2x Type 52C
2x Type 52B
2x Type 54

Even when they bought Sovremenny's, they were purchased in batches of 2.
So based on recent patterns, I'd say there's a high probability that 2 Type 51C will be built.

Gauntlet said:

Are the 051C's supposed to carry AEW choppers?

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I'd refer you to the sinodefense web page:


the Type 051C has no helicopter hanger to carry its own shipborne helicopter. Eight anti-ship missiles instead of 16 found on other Chinese-built destroyers are installed at midship due to the limited space.

According to folks at Chinese sites, the first hull of 051C set sail from Dalian Shipyard at 0830 local time amid a noisy dockside party. The ship's deck was filled with crewmen and shipyard technicians. It is almost exactly one year to the date of launch.
It wouldn't necessarily be a commisioning, just a quick turn around the harbour to test the engines. The first trip under its own power could be sufficent cause for some celebration.

Firstly, I saw on ship 115, and there COULD be another one under construction but this might be the same ship.

It is only unusual to have only one ship, e.g. Shenzhen 167 (Luhai class)

One theory is that 115 was originally the second hull for Luhai class but the project was cancelled before they could install the system. The hull was left there for many years befoer it was constructed as Type 051C.

Also it is not unusual for the PLAN to skip pennant numbers. eg, there is no 111 or 135.

MIGleader said:

first off, are the chinese building one or two? ive only seen one at a time, eept for when some picture showed two hulls. other picstures show an unpainted 51c, even though these pictures came out after picture which showed a 51c painted 115

why would the plan commision one of class? doesnt it normally do two?
it could be argued that this is the sister to 167, but then why is it in a seperate fleet?

and 115 is a number jump over the last north fleet vessel, 113. what is going on?

Click to expand...

there are TWO SHIPS at this pix

Well, let's hope that a future Chinese Air Defence Destroyer design is built by the dozens, like the US Arleigh Burke. Starting from 2012, China's GDP will be big enough to build 4 Air Defence Destroyers per year.:china:

thank u very much for the pic, sczepan. its good confirmation for two 51cs.i dont think it looks ps at all.
if a 51c is indeed a 51b hull, how did the chinese hide it for so long? it was 5 years since 167 was completed that the first 51c began building.

The only ships that count are the ones that get deployed. So I don't think the PLAN is going to spend money making more 51's than those already being built when they've got newer models they can build instead.

adeptitus, what do you mean no helicopter hanger/ from the pics weve seen, theres clearly a large helicopter hanger, capable of holding at least two z-9s. ill contact donfeng about it.