2023 Pakistan Civil Unrest

Dalit

New Member
Registered Member
I can't really tell. My gut tells me it is not about China or US, it is about their personal reasons. It just happened to align with US interest this time.

Imran Khan is getting too popular for military junta's comfort. They removed Imran because some of his policy and orientation is unconductive of elite's interests, not that they prefer US over China in particular. All US needs is a little bit nudge here and there helping it happen. Most of the drivers are within Pakistan.

You are absolutely correct. The removal of Imran Khan had little to do with China, but more with appeasing the Americans. There are also domestic issues at play. Pakistani military and other elites aren't used to being called out for corruption and malpractice. Imran Khan has ruffled many feathers in Pakistan, namely:

1. The bureaucracy in Pakistan was angry because his party initiated certain changes that didn't sit well with their corrupt ways.
2. The teachers in Pakistan were angry because for the first time they were forced to attend a class and teach the pupils. Otherwise no salary. Normally Pakistan has ghost schools.
3. The judiciary was angry because they were unable to openly commit fraudulent cases.
4. The Americans were upset because Imran Khan was openly talking about an independent foreign policy which aligned with the Pakistani state's interest.
5. The Pakistani main stream media was angry because normally they are used to receiving bribes for reporting. During Imran Khan's tenure such bribes were termed illegal.
6. The Western powers were angry because Imran Khan didn't tow their line on many issues. Imran Khan was a fierce proponent of independent policy and sovereignty.
7. The Pakistani army was very upset with Imran Khan because he was obviously challenging their hegemony within Pakistan. Normally all domestic and especially foreign policies are formulated by the Pakistani army. Imran Khan sought more power to be able to formulate policies at a governmental level. The generals didn't like it.

The gist is that many actors were upset with Imran Khan and the policies of his party. Imran Khan and his party were far from perfect and also made mistakes, but that did not warrant removal from power. Overall the people were satisfied with Imran Khan's political and economic policies versus the established order. It was easy for the Americans to instigate the Pakistani military and opposition to remove Imran Khan from power. Imran Khan is not an easy person who would simply give up and flee like his predecessors. He fought for what he termed Pakistan's cause, but you cannot win against those with ultimate power i.e. the military generals within Pakistan. Things got very much out of hand and the fight between Imran Khan and the military was played out in the open where the Americans supported the opposition and the military generals. The people of Pakistan overwhelmingly support Imran Khan, but the military, opposition and the US wouldn't allow free and fair elections. The elections have been delayed again recently. Until Imran Khan is completely out of the scene elections in Pakistan will be postponed indefinitely. The US claims to be neutral and terms Imran Khan's detention as Pakistan's internal matter.
 

aahyan

Senior Member
Registered Member
Because elites the world over can immigrate their entire families to the US. China doesn’t allow immigrations except in some narrow cases.

As per recent study more then 270 Lt. generals (current/retired) were migrated to Canada along with families.

Our last few Army chiefs are or were in:

- Musharaf (Deceased) - In Dubai
- Kiyani - Bought mini island in Australia & living there with family
- Raheel - Currently in KSA
- Bajwa - In Belgium bought huge agriculture land there.

Almost 2/3 of our Military establishment has settled their families aboard (US/UK/Canada/UAE & other countries.)
 

Dalit

New Member
Registered Member
If only China had military officer training exchange with Pakistan.

I agree wholeheartedly. During Trump's era the military exchange program between the US and Pakistan was temporarily halted. I say temporarily because this made the US military and other influential actors very upset in the US. This despite Trump and many neocons openly accusing Pakistan of duplicity in Afghanistan etc. A lot of pressure was piled behind the scenes against Trump's government to reinstate the military program between the US and Pakistan. As we all know, the military exchange program was reinstated within a matter of months.

The US policymakers gain first-hand knowledge when they receive highly placed and hand picked military officials from Pakistan. From an early stage the US manipulates and programs these military officials to act as their agents. Such highly placed military officials receive many perks. Their families and relatives are allowed to become US citizens and have business opportunities within the US. The children of Pakistani military officials are allowed to study in the US. The list of perks goes on. Not in a million years can the Pakistani elites oppose US demands.

China also needs something similar in Pakistan. I know that China doesn't have the policy of interference in domestic affairs of other nations, but in order to compete with the US certain changes are required.
 

Dalit

New Member
Registered Member
As per recent study more then 270 Lt. generals (current/retired) were migrated to Canada along with families.

Our last few Army chiefs are or were in:

- Musharaf (Deceased) - In Dubai
- Kiyani - Bought mini island in Australia & living there with family
- Raheel - Currently in KSA
- Bajwa - In Belgium bought huge agriculture land there.

Almost 2/3 of our Military establishment has settled their families aboard (US/UK/Canada/UAE & other countries.)

Traditionally our elites have a love affair with the US for various reasons. You have to remember that in Pakistan there exists a very stubborn F-16 generation. These boomers are still in places of power. It is true that over the years many of the elites have also moved to UAE, KSA and other places. Let's also not forget that apart from the US countries such as the UAE and KSA also like to play a nefarious role in achieving their objectives. These GCC countries also have a history of interference in Pakistani political affairs. Certain political figures have received amnesty and refuge in GCC countries.
 

aahyan

Senior Member
Registered Member
You are absolutely correct. The removal of Imran Khan had little to do with China, but more with appeasing the Americans. There are also domestic issues at play. Pakistani military and other elites aren't used to being called out for corruption and malpractice. Imran Khan has ruffled many feathers in Pakistan, namely:

1. The bureaucracy in Pakistan was angry because his party initiated certain changes that didn't sit well with their corrupt ways.
2. The teachers in Pakistan were angry because for the first time they were forced to attend a class and teach the pupils. Otherwise no salary. Normally Pakistan has ghost schools.
3. The judiciary was angry because they were unable to openly commit fraudulent cases.
4. The Americans were upset because Imran Khan was openly talking about an independent foreign policy which aligned with the Pakistani state's interest.
5. The Pakistani main stream media was angry because normally they are used to receiving bribes for reporting. During Imran Khan's tenure such bribes were termed illegal.
6. The Western powers were angry because Imran Khan didn't tow their line on many issues. Imran Khan was a fierce proponent of independent policy and sovereignty.
7. The Pakistani army was very upset with Imran Khan because he was obviously challenging their hegemony within Pakistan. Normally all domestic and especially foreign policies are formulated by the Pakistani army. Imran Khan sought more power to be able to formulate policies at a governmental level. The generals didn't like it.

The gist is that many actors were upset with Imran Khan and the policies of his party. Imran Khan and his party were far from perfect and also made mistakes, but that did not warrant removal from power. Overall the people were satisfied with Imran Khan's political and economic policies versus the established order. It was easy for the Americans to instigate the Pakistani military and opposition to remove Imran Khan from power. Imran Khan is not an easy person who would simply give up and flee like his predecessors. He fought for what he termed Pakistan's cause, but you cannot win against those with ultimate power i.e. the military generals within Pakistan. Things got very much out of hand and the fight between Imran Khan and the military was played out in the open where the Americans supported the opposition and the military generals. The people of Pakistan overwhelmingly support Imran Khan, but the military, opposition and the US wouldn't allow free and fair elections. The elections have been delayed again recently. Until Imran Khan is completely out of the scene elections in Pakistan will be postponed indefinitely. The US claims to be neutral and terms Imran Khan's detention as Pakistan's internal matter.

As per recent poll on twitter done by pro-establishment journalist, they result is overwhelming in favor of IK (74% - out of 326,000 people participated).

Question was " Which prime minister's performance was better? Imran Khan Vs Shabaz Sharief"
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Dalit

New Member
Registered Member
I remember reading a story where the Afghan former finance minister now drives a taxi in DC. Driving a taxi in America is a higher state of being for these people than anything their countries can offer them, apparently.

You are absolutely correct in your observation. The problem with such countries is that they are not powerful enough to oppose US demands. Worse, people in influential positions are often brought to power through US meddling. In other words, they are there to serve US interests. The Afghan taxi driver in the US was no exception. The entire Ghani government in Afghanistan was flown in from Western capitals.
 

aahyan

Senior Member
Registered Member
76 years of independence and what do these military men have to show even after thinking of themselves as superior beings and embarrassing themselves and Pakistanis on the global stage?

A debt-ridden dysfunctional economy and every national ministry/institution rotted with nepotism and filled with duffers that make bad decision after bad decision. They have not a learned a single positive thing from their "brotherly" countries.

Every year this country's condition worsens, while other nations continue to grow. Soon Pakistan will be nothing in comparison to its adversaries that are learning from their mistakes and toxicity.

This is the worst military junta in history, when it could've made Pakistan into a regional power and globally respected.

Our incompetent establishment should look towards Turkey/China and Japan of how to administrate a country.

We label them brotherly countries, allies, what not, but can not learn a single positive thing from them behind success, their institutions are very powerful and competent, meritocracy is thriving and very nationalistic and motivated people.

Meanwhile in Pakistan they are the most unqualified people you could imagine just draining resources and doing even worse job than a school kid could do.
 

Dalit

New Member
Registered Member
Only one answer ..... corruption ..... We all know how crooked politicians are in most nations, but in this country, our military establishment is corrupt.

True. Many patriotic Pakistanis were too blind to observe that the Pakistani military is also part of the same setup as the rest. Many eyes have opened recently after the debacle. For the first time the generals are receiving criticism from the general public. There is no doubt that the Pakistani military is involved in political engineering. The Pakistani military is one of a kind that also has commercial interests within Pakistan. Which military in the world runs a bank, cement industry and other commercial activities? This needs to stop if Pakistan truly seeks to prosper.
 

aahyan

Senior Member
Registered Member
True. Many patriotic Pakistanis were too blind to observe that the Pakistani military is also part of the same setup as the rest. Many eyes have opened recently after the debacle. For the first time the generals are receiving criticism from the general public. There is no doubt that the Pakistani military is involved in political engineering. The Pakistani military is one of a kind that also has commercial interests within Pakistan. Which military in the world runs a bank, cement industry and other commercial activities? This needs to stop if Pakistan truly seeks to prosper.

Read all the businesses Pakistani Army running around Pakistan

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The projects/units being run by the AWT (Army Welfare Trust) are:

Two stud farms in Pakpattan and Okara
Army Welfare Sugar Mills, Badin
Askari Project (shoe and woollen), Lahore
Army Welfare Mess and Blue Lagoon Restaurant, Rawalpindi
Real estate comprising three small housing schemes in Lahore, Badaber and Sangjani
Askari General Insurance Co Ltd Rawalpindi
Askari Aviation Services, Rawalpindi
MAL Pakistan Ltd Karachi
Askari Guards (Pvt) Ltd, head office (HO) in Rawalpindi
Askari Fuels (CNG) with HO in Rawalpindi
Askari Seeds, Okara
Askari Enterprises, Rawalpindi
Fauji Security Services (acquired from Fauji Foundation), HO in Rawalpindi
Askari Apparel, Lahore
Askari Lagoon, Faisalabad.
The projects/units under Fauji Foundation are:

Fauji Cereals
Foundation Gas
Fauji Fertiliser Company Ltd
Fauji Cement Co Ltd
Fauji Oil Terminal and Distillery Co Ltd
Fauji Kabirwala Power Company Ltd
Foundation Power Co (Dharki) Ltd
Askari Cement Ltd
Askari Bank Ltd
Foundation Wind Energy (I and II) Ltd
Noon Pakistan Ltd Lahore
Fauji Meat Ltd
Fauji Fertiliser Bin Qasim Ltd
Fauji Akbar Partia Marine Terminal Ltd, HO in Karachi.


Similarly, the projects, units and housing colonies under the administrative control of Shaheen Foundation, which is a trust of the Pakistan Air Force, are:

Shaheen Airport Services
Shaheen Aerotraders
Shaheen Knitwear
Shaheen Complex, Karachi
Shaheen Complex, Lahore
Shaheen Medical Services
Hawk Advertising
Fazaia Welfare Education School System
SAPS Aviation College
Air Eagle Aviation Academy
Shaheen Welfare Housing Scheme, Peshawar.
 

BoraTas

Major
Registered Member
76 years of independence and what do these military men have to show even after thinking of themselves as superior beings and embarrassing themselves and Pakistanis on the global stage?

A debt-ridden dysfunctional economy and every national ministry/institution rotted with nepotism and filled with duffers that make bad decision after bad decision. They have not a learned a single positive thing from their "brotherly" countries.

Every year this country's condition worsens, while other nations continue to grow. Soon Pakistan will be nothing in comparison to its adversaries that are learning from their mistakes and toxicity.

This is the worst military junta in history, when it could've made Pakistan into a regional power and globally respected.

Our incompetent establishment should look towards Turkey/China and Japan of how to administrate a country.

We label them brotherly countries, allies, what not, but can not learn a single positive thing from them behind success, their institutions are very powerful and competent, meritocracy is thriving and very nationalistic and motivated people.

Meanwhile in Pakistan they are the most unqualified people you could imagine just draining resources and doing even worse job than a school kid could do.
Erdogan is not a good leader but there are things he did well. For example, he stopped the military from being a political actor. A military should stay as a military. When it becomes a decision maker, everything starts to suck.
 
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