2022 Olympic Winter Games Beijing

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Lol WTH?


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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I see.

Keep in mind citizenship is a modern concept for China. There was no equivalent concept in ancient China. So the historical root that I refer to is really about more recent history (post-1840, say).
Although it was not called "citizenship", a foreigner can not travel through, settle down or purchase property anywhere inside the border of the Chinese empire, nor can a subject of the Chinese emperor leave the empire without permissions. In essence it is citizenship.

One example is that the European missionaries had to wait inside the dedicated area in Guangzhou for permission to travel to Beijing to meet the emperor during the Ming Dynasty.

Another example is that in folklore Xuan Zang carried a "通关碟文" stating that he is the subject of Tang (dynasty) and asking for the assistance of government of Kingdoms on his way to modern day India. That is the same statement in a passport. But in reality he smuggled himself out of the country, that proves that he did need a paper to leave and then enter. That paper is just passport.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
That reasoning is actually wrong. Chinese dynasties had held the same attitude towards Chinese emigrants as far as we know (by official decrees) since Ming dynasty. The idea is much earlier than that. There is an ancient saying by Han Yu 韩愈 768-824AD who quoted Kong Zi (Confucius) as saying

“孔子之作《春秋》也,诸侯用夷礼则夷之,夷而进于中国则中国之。”(《五百家注昌黎文集》卷一一《原道》)

It means, treat the feodal lord (Chinese people) as foreigners if they practice foreign rites, treat the foreigners as Chinese if they act as Chinese.

Worth to note, Han Yu lives in the Chinese Tang dynasty, the zenith of Han Chinese power. He isn't some government scholars of Yuan or Qing dynasty to justify "foreign" rules. This idea was also inherited by the Qing dynasty in their policy towards emigration to South East Asia. It is an universal Chinese idea.

From this ideology, an oversea Chinese especially after generations have almost exclusively foreign mind therefor can not be Chinese and has to be treated as foreigners.

Remember, China was a super power all the way to 1845, yet it has practised the same policy for most of its history. It has nothing to do with the weakness since 1845, but very much to do with the deep concept of what is Chinese. A person must be Chinese in the mind which is impossible if the person is immersed in a foreign society. Let's be honest, no matter how hard the parents may try to keep the child Chinese, one becomes what one grows up and lives in. A drop of water can not resist the flow of the river.

One may argue against this idea according to modern western idea of nationhood, but this idea is very defining Chinese one as old as China itself, so don't expect China to give it up quickly and easily.

Hate to disagree with you, but according to that logic, people can just move to China, and if they act sufficiently Chinese, then they should get a Chinese citizenship.

That's not how it works, is it though?

There was a real move toward recognizing dual citizenship some 15 years ago, but unfortunately it was scuttled by the increasingly hostile attitude of Western countries against China.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Good point. Winter sports tend to be expensive to participate. The ordinary Chinese likely cannot afford all that expensive equipment, training, facilities, transport fees. Gu is definitely in the privileged class. Her mom attended Stanford and got into finance sector, I think. Her dad attended Harvard. I saw the feature on her where she had equestrian lessons as a kid. Her life and upbringing isn't typical of most Chinese. There is still a long way for China to reach the level of Western developed societies.
Just two points
In China, I think it depends where one lives. Eg Shenzhen is one of the richest cities based on a per capita income{is that the right terminology} but it doesn't snow there.
I don't think all those folks competing in the games come from a privileged class. I would say the most are from an upper middle class background whose parents would still be called upon to make sacrifices. Our own gold winner Zoi Sadowski-Synnott is from that background. They live a short drive out of Wanaka
Sometime back I read China had over a hundred million people who could describe themselves as middle class and upwards.That should provide a big enough base to nurture talent.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Sometime back I read China had over a hundred million people who could describe themselves as middle class and upwards.That should provide a big enough base to nurture talent.

Well yes, that was the point of hosting the Winter Olympics, and why Eileen Gu wanted to represent China. They both wanted to promote winter sports, not necessarily for Olympics, but for economics and general well-being.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Hate to disagree with you, but according to that logic, people can just move to China, and if they act sufficiently Chinese, then they should get a Chinese citizenship.

That's not how it works, is it though?
But people can't move to China as they wish to begin with. Chinese government determine to let whom in. For the ones who are allowed to move into China, they won't necessarily get citizenship ever because residence in China has no bearing on qualification of citizenship. Chinese citizenship is like a marriage, China has the full and only say whether to let a person into the family, whether a person is sufficiently Chinese or not. The Chinese legal framework (so far) is designed around this idea.

In a crude way, it is like "You are Chinese when I say so."

There was a real move toward recognizing dual citizenship some 15 years ago, but unfortunately it was scuttled by the increasingly hostile attitude of Western countries against China.
I am not aware of any particular move. There was always some people including member of "political consultancy congress" advocating the idea, even in the past 5 years after hostility from the west has grown for a long time. Those prominent members are all non CPC members though, "民主党派" who naturally have foreign relatives or friends, so it is only natural for them to ask for what they want, but majority of Chinese don't have such interests or connections. So I don't see the matter ever had any real weight in Chinese government's consideration.
 
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SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
It was the debut of the Chinese men's ice hockey team today. Unfortunately they scored nothing.

Facing the US team, the Chinese team was outgunned by 29 to 56 shots on goal. They lost the first period by 0 to 1 in score. In the second period the deficit increased to 0 to 4, then 0 to 8 after the third period. The Chinese players are not at the same level as the Americans.

The guancha story headline says "The Chinese team played a good first period":

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Compare the Chinese team jersey to
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:

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