2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Miragedriver

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At the very least Putin is sending a message...and having his troops in a position to be ready if he want to use them That message is unmistakable and in direct responce to Obama's recent "warning" to Russia about not sending troops into the Ukraine in any way.

I Agree Jeff. It is a very clear message to not mess with our interests. Just like Russia is having its way (majority of the time) in Syria, she will want her way (in the best interest of Russia) with the internal workings of the Ukraine. I speculate that Putin’s wet dreams are of a Ukrainian ally in lines with Belarus. The Ukraine is very important to Russia. During the Soviet era The Russians and Ukrainians built a vast army, air force, navy and set people into space in an incredible space program.

Additionally, as you indicated early in the thread; The Crimea (specifically Sevastopol) is not only of strategic importance, but also consists of a Russian populous majority. It is plain that Moscow could always produce an argument that the minority of ethnic Russians within Ukraine, but distributed so as to form majorities in certain regions, represent a group which Russia may have to protect. I think the population of the Ukraine was probably always mixed like this but surely Stalin (and others) also migrated huge numbers of native Russians into other areas within the former USSR exactly for this sort of “loyalty” argument.

Much is being said on all sides as to the need for the territorial integrity of Ukraine to remain intact, a stance which cannot also contain an East which wants to be more in bed with Russia and a West which wants to get into bed with a new partner, the European Union. Meanwhile the People of Ukraine just want to escape a spectacular level of political graft and corruption holding back the development of their country.

Hopefully the situation does not spin out of control. However, with the announcement of the formation of a government will be postponed until Thursday, the delays could add fuel to the separatists in the nation.

However, if Russia invades eastern Ukraine, they will be dubbed "jack booted thugs", and thus Putin will lose his hard earned “respect” in the world media (I say this jokingly), he has worked so hard to gain. However, who knows how the western world will respond, especially with a Hamlet like Obama leading from behind?
 

shen

Senior Member
[video=youtube;xISpGw-0Iz0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISpGw-0Iz0[/video]

wonder why we don't see this in "free" Western media.
 

shen

Senior Member
[video=youtube;57ZBaNrrImw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ZBaNrrImw[/video]

very painful to watch a society descent into such chaos and hoodlums run the streets.
 

bajingan

Senior Member
Russia war games over Ukraine prompt US warning

Hi I am not sure if this the right thread to put this news in

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KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia ordered 150,000 troops to test their combat readiness Wednesday in a show of force that prompted a blunt warning from the United States that any military intervention in Ukraine would be a "grave mistake."

US warns Russia against Ukraine intervention Associated Press
New Ukraine ministers proposed, Russian troops on alert Reuters
Rival groups clash in Ukraine's Crimea, 20 injured Associated Press
Yatsenyuk proposed as new Ukraine prime minister Associated Press
US warns Russia on Ukraine, nudges Georgia to West Associated Press

Vladimir Putin's announcement of huge new war games came as Ukraine's protest leaders named a millionaire former banker to head a new government after the pro-Russian president went into hiding.

The new government, which is expected to be formally approved by parliament Thursday, will face the hugely complicated task of restoring stability in a country that is not only deeply divided politically but on the verge of financial collapse. Its fugitive president, Viktor Yanukovych, fled the capital last week.

In Kiev's Independence Square, the heart of the protest movement against Yanukovych, the interim leaders who seized control after he disappeared proposed Arseniy Yatsenyuk as the country's new prime minister. The 39-year-old served as economy minister, foreign minister and parliamentary speaker before Yanukovych took office in 2010, and is widely viewed as a technocratic reformer who enjoys the support of the U.S.

Across Ukraine, the divided allegiances between Russia and the West were on full display as fistfights broke out between pro- and anti-Russia protesters in the strategic Crimea peninsula.

Amid the tensions, Putin put the military on alert for massive exercises involving most of the military units in western Russia, and announced measures to tighten security at the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea Fleet on Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.

The maneuvers will involve some 150,000 troops, 880 tanks, 90 aircraft and 80 navy ships, and are intended to "check the troops' readiness for action in crisis situations that threaten the nation's military security," Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said in remarks carried by Russian news agencies.

The move prompted a sharp rebuke from U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who warned Russia against any military intervention in Ukraine.

"Any kind of military intervention that would violate the sovereign territorial integrity of Ukraine would be a huge, a grave mistake," Kerry told reporters in Washington. "The territorial integrity of Ukraine needs to be respected."

In delivering the message, Kerry also announced that the Obama administration was planning $1 billion in loan guarantees for Ukraine and would consider additional direct assistance for the former Soviet republic.

Still, Kerry insisted that U.S. policy was not aimed at reducing Russia's influence in Ukraine or other former Soviet republics, but rather to see their people realize aspirations for freedom in robust democracies with strong economies.




"This is not 'Rocky IV'," Kerry said, referring to the 1985 Sylvester Stallone film in which an aging American boxer takes on a daunting Soviet muscleman. "It is not a zero-sum game. We do not view it through the lens of East-West, Russia-U.S. or anything else. We view it as an example of people within a sovereign nation who are expressing their desire to choose their future. And that's a very powerful force."

Russia denied the military maneuvers had any connection to the situation in Ukraine, but the massive show of force appeared intended to show both the new Ukrainian authorities and the West that the Kremlin was ready to use all means to protect its interests.

While Russia has pledged not to intervene in Ukraine's domestic affairs, it has issued a flurry of statements voicing concern about the situation of Russian speakers in Ukraine, including in the Crimea.

The strategic region, which hosts a major Russian naval base and where the majority of the population are Russian speakers, has strong ties to Moscow. It only became part of Ukraine in 1954 when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev transferred jurisdiction from Russia — a move that was a mere formality until the 1991 Soviet collapse meant Crimea landed in an independent Ukraine.

Igor Korotchenko, a former colonel of the Russian military's General Staff, wrote a commentary in a Russian online newspaper, slon.ru, saying "if illegal armed formations attempt to overthrow the local government in Crimea by force, a civil war will start and Russia couldn't ignore it."




Still, while the exercises include most units from Russia's Western Military District and some from the Central Military District that spreads across the Urals and part of Siberia, it does not involve troops from the Southern Military District, such as the Black Sea Fleet and areas in southern Russia that neighbor Ukraine.

This seemed to signal that Moscow does not want to go too far. By flexing its military muscles Russia clearly wants to show the West it must seriously consider its interests in Ukraine, while avoiding inflaming tensions further.

In Crimea, fistfights broke out between rival demonstrators in the regional capital of Simferopol when some 20,000 Muslim Tatars rallying in support of Ukraine's interim leaders clashed with a smaller pro-Russian rally.

The protesters shouted and attacked each other with stones, bottles and punches, as police and leaders of both rallies struggled to keep the two groups apart.

One health official said at least 20 people were injured, while the local health ministry said one person died from an apparent heart attack. Tatar leaders said there was a second fatality when a woman was trampled to death by the crowd. Authorities did not confirm that.



The Tatars, a Muslim ethnic group who have lived in Crimea for centuries, were brutally deported in 1944 by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, but have since returned.

One of the first jobs for Yatsenyuk and other members of his new Cabinet will be seeking outside financial help from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund. Economists say Ukraine is close to financial collapse, with its currency under pressure and its treasury almost empty. The acting finance minister has said Ukraine will need $35 billion in bailout loans to get through the next two years.

Any such deal will require a new prime minister to take unpopular steps, such as raising the price of gas to consumers. The state gas company charges as little as one-fifth of what it pays for imported Russian gas. The IMF unsuccessfully pressed Ukraine to halt the practice under two earlier bailouts, and halted aid when Kiev wouldn't comply.

The European Commission's top officials held a meeting Wednesday in Brussels to discuss how the 28-nation bloc can provide rapid financial assistance to Ukraine.

I wonder what will the US response would be if Russia really decide to intervene militarily, will it be Georgia all over again when the US just sits and did nothing?, Or will the US decide to defend Ukraine and confront Russia?
with the era of budget cuts and the current US administration, I think the answer is the former.
 

SampanViking

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News this morning full of reports of pro Russian militia taking control of Government buildings in the Crimea and that the Interim President of Ukraine saying that any movement of Russia's Black Sea fleet out of Port, would be considered an act of aggression.

With all the Manoeuvres by the Russian armed forces, it does look as though Putin is not going to beat around the bush, but will re-integrate the Crimea and let the EU keep the rest. It does somehow seem in character.

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SampanViking

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Playing (Geopolitical) Poker with Putin.

Geopolitical Poker is a fascinating game. Its main difference from the regular versions, is that most of your opponents know or have a pretty good idea of the cards your holding, but the bluff is whether they believe you are willing or capable of playing them.

If Putin learned any lessons from the last few months (somehow doubt he needed any lesson) is that you do not make the mistake of Yanokovych and negotiate from a position of weakness, be indecisive and make unnecessary concessions.

He has instead opened with the very definite gambit of reintegrating the Crimea and maybe other staunchly Russian areas into the Sovereign Territory of the Russian Republic. I also am sure however, that he does not wish to do this unless there are no other options to his liking. To be sure, I have no doubt this will be no bluff and that he has the will and the means to enforce this option.
It will however come at a cost; not so much not being on the Christmas Card list of his Western Counterparts, but from cutting the Crimean Anchor, which locks the Ukraine both Demographically and Strategically into the Russian sphere, that he loses the rest of the Ukrainian territory for ever.

It is for him the least worst final option and it is not very good for the new Ukrainian government either, as a Ukraine that cannot deliver the Strategic prize of the Crimea, is a Ukraine of limited value to its Westerns sponsors.

Nor indeed for that matter can Putin simply walk in and annex the Crimea. He will need the democratic approval of the majority of the population. It it not so much that he can't get it, I would say there is little doubt that he will has it, but that a vote/referendum of some sort takes time and that; at present, mitigates in favour of the new government.

It is in this context that this morning item from ITAR TASS quoting Foriegn Minister Lavrov, is highly revealing, as by discussing both Human Rights and the Russian Goverments commitment to "protecting Russian compatriots from Fascist Thugs" it is recreating the R2P argument a la Benghazi in near perfect detail.

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R2P is the perfect throwaway card to lead ahead of Re-integration. It allows the Russian army to take control of the Crimea and other pro Russian regions and puts time firmly back onto Putin's side.
This will give home the following options:
1) To organise referendum of Russian re-integration in his own time and on his own terms.
2) Would allow the Russian army to respond to attempts by the Ukraine armed forces to retake the Crimea and pursue deeper into the rest of Ukraine.
3) Enables Putin to negotiate a settlement that retains Ukrainian territorial integrity from a position of overwhelming strength.

The logic for Putin must to play the R2P card sooner rather than later and the current moves in Crimea today may be the first sound of the card hitting the table. It is possible that his opponents may be able to offer him something that will stay his hand, but given that it is an easy card to play, for relatively little cost, it would take a something quite considerable to persuade him he does not need to complete the play.
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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Re: Russia war games over Ukraine prompt US warning

Hi I am not sure if this the right thread to put this news in



I wonder what will the US response would be if Russia really decide to intervene militarily, will it be Georgia all over again when the US just sits and did nothing?, Or will the US decide to defend Ukraine and confront Russia?
with the era of budget cuts and the current US administration, I think the answer is the former.[/



Sadly the BHO administration under-estimates its potential adversaries, while over-reaching on foreign policy with dictates that amount to a nagging house-wife, on who constantly berates and lectures, while screaming at the kids and never stopping to discipline those who would dis-obey. blah, blah, blah, blah blah blah, blahba! They NEVER get tired of listening to themselves talk, and have judged the true patriots as their natural born enemies, ie the "bitter clingers". sic, sic, sic
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: Russia war games over Ukraine prompt US warning

Hi I am not sure if this the right thread to put this news in

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I wonder what will the US response would be if Russia really decide to intervene militarily, will it be Georgia all over again when the US just sits and did nothing?, Or will the US decide to defend Ukraine and confront Russia?
with the era of budget cuts and the current US administration, I think the answer is the former.

Russian Black Sea has been ordered to stay in port but Russia has stationed the ships in a defensive manner

Also a Russian armoured convoy left the naval base and went beyond the distance it's restricted to

Russia also has started war games on the Western front

Thing is on the ground Russia has lots of hardware thier naval and air component is not so strong
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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Re: Russia war games over Ukraine prompt US warning

Russian Black Sea has been ordered to stay in port but Russia has stationed the ships in a defensive manner

Also a Russian armoured convoy left the naval base and went beyond the distance it's restricted to

Russia also has started war games on the Western front

Thing is on the ground Russia has lots of hardware thier naval and air component is not so strong

This is typical, playing the victim/wronged party, while ramping up the military apparatus to intimidate the other party, all the while", our team continues to diminish our ability to firmly and resolutely speak to anything other than, "their social agenda, and tearing down our moral values", it does make one nauseous to listen to this outfit, makes one wish to retch when looking at them, and weep when looking at the wholesale destruction of the bedrock of the USA. in the meantime back in washingtown, droning, droning, droning, on and on for hours on end....... talk,, and really sending Kerry out to make a statement.......... wow!
 
Re: Russia war games over Ukraine prompt US warning

This is typical, playing the victim/wronged party, while ramping up the military apparatus to intimidate the other party, all the while", our team continues to diminish our ability to firmly and resolutely speak to anything other than, "their social agenda, and tearing down our moral values", it does make one nauseous to listen to this outfit, makes one wish to retch when looking at them, and weep when looking at the wholesale destruction of the bedrock of the USA. in the meantime back in washingtown, droning, droning, droning, on and on for hours on end....... talk,, and really sending Kerry out to make a statement.......... wow!

AFB I guess your first question would be "Where's the nearest aircraft carrier?" LOL
 
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