2013 China Russia Joint Naval Training

few days ago. wforum reported that 052C n. 170 uses her 100mm gun engage and detroyed high speed wave drone simulating anti ship missile. the gun fire 3~4 round.has the missile is live -with warhead ,1 to 2 orund will be enough.
using the ship main gun to engage anti-ship cruise missile is not new.israel ship use 76mm to shoot down 15 ss-2 cruise missile during the 1973 ware.but "styx" do not possess low level under the radar umbrella flight capability,making the missile vulnerable to detection.
with advance in radar and fusing. this make possible for large calibre gun to engage low level supersonic missile.french navy during the mid-90's uses 100mm gun with advance fuse able to shoot down drone simulating AtSm.

Phead128 said:

It has not been lost on the minds of Chinese that Vladivostok was once an integral city of the Chinese empire no less than 150 years ago.

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No, it was not. That city was built by the russians. And i doubt that the vast majority of the chinese, if not almost all the chinese, care about a territory that they never set foot and lost 153 years ago. Only the hard-line nationalists.

Phead128 said:

Outer Manchuria

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There never was any "outer manchuria". Neither chinese nor manchus habitated those territories.

kroko said:

No, it was not. That city was built by the russians. And i doubt that the vast majority of the chinese, if not almost all the chinese, care about a territory that they never set foot and lost 153 years ago. Only the hard-line nationalists.



There never was any "outer manchuria". Neither chinese nor manchus habitated those territories.

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Yeah, I have never heard of such term... He might be talking about Outer Mongolia?

vesicles said:

Yeah, I have never heard of such term... He might be talking about Outer Mongolia?

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That's what I took it to mean. But I also felt it was more of a nationalistic rant and therefore had absolutely zero bearing on the discussion regarding China and Russian joint naval exercises. Certainly no bearing on their eventual use of their carriers in those exercises. For my part and the discussion about that, it simply was something thrown out there that was not a meaningful part of the dialog.

Kroko said:

No, it was not. That city was built by the russians. And i doubt that the vast majority of the chinese, if not almost all the chinese, care about a territory that they never set foot and lost 153 years ago. Only the hard-line nationalists.

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Wrong, the region was most definitely a part of Qing Dynasty territory until it was by Tsarist Russia in 1860.

You should learn some history, the territory was most definitely a part of Qing Empire, and was stolen by the Russians under an unequal treaty that Chinese will never forget.

The Chinese and Manchus were settled in the Pacific coast near Vladivostok, and Russians even expelled massive Chinese/Manchu settlements from the Outer Manchurian area after annexation!

Jeff Head said:

That's what I took it to mean. But I also felt it was more of a nationalistic rant and therefore had absolutely zero bearing on the discussion regarding China and Russian joint naval exercises. Certainly no bearing on their eventual use of their carriers in those exercises. For my part and the discussion about that, it simply was something thrown out there that was not a meaningful part of the dialog.

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I concede it is possible that Liaoning could intermingle with Kuznetsov, though I am wary that the future Russian-Chinese relationship could devolve into another Sino-Soviet split, given they shared the enemy challenges in Cold War (read: US), and even common ideology (read: Communism), yet still couldn't even agree with border issues near Vladivostok. History shows that while joint training and military sales illustrate warming relations, it comes from a very low base of relations historically, and mutual suspicion still exists.

At best, Russian-Chinese relations can be described as "Axis of Convenience", because of the convergence of islet disputes with US-backed Japan, and shared maritime interests in Asia-Pacific dominated by U.S. Pivot. Other than that, I don't see Russia coming to aid for Kuznetsov for Taiwan or Diaoyutai/Senkaku islands. Russia doesn't want to alienate the Americans for Chinese interests, and China doesn't want to alienate America for Russian interests.

Phead128 said:

Wrong, the

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region was most definitely a part of Qing Dynasty territory until it was

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by Tsarist Russia in 1860.

You should learn some history, the territory was most definitely a part of Qing Empire, and was stolen by the Russians under an unequal treaty that Chinese will never forget.

The Chinese and Manchus were settled in the Pacific coast near Vladivostok, and Russians even expelled massive Chinese/Manchu settlements from the Outer Manchurian area after annexation!.

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I didnt say that the territory didnt belong to china. But i think that you exagerating the importance of that territory to chinese today.

chinese didnt habitated those territories. And if some were really there, it was just some tiny remote villages, and only at a very small part of the territory . There were NO chinese cities in that territory.

I think in terms of strategic significance it means China lost direct access to the Pacific Ocean

Jeff Head said:

That's what I took it to mean. But I also felt it was more of a nationalistic rant and therefore had absolutely zero bearing on the discussion regarding China and Russian joint naval exercises. Certainly no bearing on their eventual use of their carriers in those exercises. For my part and the discussion about that, it simply was something thrown out there that was not a meaningful part of the dialog.

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It is an issue in the past, as China only recognized the as the legitimate treaty between Russian and China, and the treaties afterwards particularly as unequal treaties not recognized by the PRC ( didn't address border issues). However, since the between the USSR as China and with . There really isn't any cause for conflict. Anyways, China is now , and in will be in pages of History.

I think Luhai concluded that one well. I have no clue why Phead came out of nowhere to bring up historical grievance on a thread clearly focused on naval training.

Please have no more comment on this particular issue. And to other moderators, if Phead does this kind of funny business again, please suspend him.

Chinese naval fleet spotted sailing for the first time through an international strait between northern Japan and Russia's far east

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21 naval ships from Russia, China sail off Hokkaido after drill
Kyodo News InternationalJuly 14, 2013 02:02

A fleet of 16 Russian naval ships and five vessels of the Chinese navy sailed through an international strait north of Hokkaido from midday Saturday to the Sea of Okhotsk, Japan's Defense Ministry said Sunday.

Russia and China conducted a joint naval drill off the coast of Vladivostok from July 5 to 12, but the purpose of their passage through the Soya Strait is not known, a ministry official said.

The Russian fleet including missile cruisers, missile destroyers, a supply ship and a hospital ship traveled through the strait Saturday afternoon, while the Chinese fleet comprising two missile destroyers, two frigates and a supply ship passed through the strait early Sunday, the ministry said.

==Kyodo

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