09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I don't think he is kidding, given his post history is littered with overly enthusiastic claims and ideas.

Regardless of what capability 093 approaches, judging it based on photos as he did is ridiculous.

His Mom just bought him a new 8 Ball, a good one, made in China...... really cool

It is however a pretty boat, but there's really NO WAY....when they start running 6-9 month cruises, and turning up half-way around the world, then we'll talk, until then????
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
His Mom just bought him a new 8 Ball, a good one, made in China...... really cool

It is however a pretty boat, but there's really NO WAY....when they start running 6-9 month cruises, and turning up half-way around the world, then we'll talk, until then????

Of course, we will never know about those kind of missions, and the PLAN have no overseas bases so their nuclear subs will never be above the surface.

And of course, being able to do long cruises is no proof of combat capability
 

Tyloe

Junior Member
South China Morning Post reported that scientists at the Harbin Institute of Technology are researching the potential to create supersonic submarines or future commercial transportation, by allowing the vessel to travel through generated supercavitation bubbles or large air pockets, which would theoretically be faster than the power from normal marine propulsion systems.
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Rudderless control could bring supersonic submarines from sci-fi to reality

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The Chinese liquid spray membrane will employ rudderless control of submarines, travelling through supercavitation phase, enabling high speed travel underwater.
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The propulsion method used to speed up the Ghost is the same enabling the Russian Skval torpedo to gain a speed four time higher than its western counterparts.

Chinese scientists are studying the applications of supercavitation to propel large bodies underwater at high speed. A team of scientists at the Harbin institute of Technology’s Complex Flow and Heat Transfer lab headed by Prof. Li Fengchen has come up with a new approach to create an ‘air bubble’ required for rapid underwater travel.

“We are very excited by its potential” Prof. Fengchen said, explaining that the unique attributes of the team’s new concept is the ability to control the vessel within the air bubble, without a rudder. Lack of steering and control has limited the application of this concept to unmanned bodies such as torpedoes, that were fired in a straight line because they had limited ability to turn. “Our method is different from any other approach, such as vector propulsion or thrust created by an engine” Li said.

Scaled up into a full size ‘supersonic submarine’, such vessel could make the distance from Shanghai China to San Francisco, CA in less than two hours

The supercavitation propulsion concept was explored in the Soviet Union in the 1960s, but implemented only with torpedoes (Shkval). In the US, applications are explored with hovercraft and counter-mine applications. (New Scientist Magazine, 7-2000) The Chinese team’s concept employs the application of a liquid spray around the underwater vessel’s body, creating a membrane on its surface, reducing the drag at low speed. As the speed reaches 40 knots (75 km/h) and higher the vessel would enter the supercavitation state. At this stage, the membrane that wraps the vessel would help with steerin by applying variable levels of friction in the appropriate axis. remain Wang said even he had been kept in the dark about recent supercavitation developments in China. “By combining liquid-membrane technology with supercavitation, we can significantly reduce the launch challenges and make cruising control easier,” he told the South China Morning Post.

Scaledup into a full size ‘supersonic submarine’, such vessel could make the distance from Shanghai China to San Francisco, CA in less than two hours. A submarine that could be traDespite these breakthough researches, supercavitating super-submarines are still decades away, Li said, including the introduction of powerful underwater rocket engines that could give the vessels longer range and higher underwater velocity, up to supersonic speed. The effective range of Russian supercavitation torpedoes (Shkval) that could travel at a speed of 200 knots (370km/h) was between 6-8 nm (11-15 km).

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I think such a feat would be revolutionary but technologically demanding. This will take China's best researchers at least a decade or two. If a submarine can achieve such speeds it might be very helpful with evading radar detection and increase mobility for operations in open oceans.
 
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Blackstone

Brigadier
he probably was however I do think he is right. It is probably somewhat equivalent to the LA class Flt I boats but certainly not the Improved LA class of the 1990s.
095 OTOH probably has similar capabilities to the Improved LA boats but that is pure guess on my part.

USNI thinks the 093s are fairly noisy, but they didn't rate them against US subs, so I'm not sure how they stack up. In any case, USN doesn't seem to be all that concerned about detecting those SSNs.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
South China Morning Post reported that scientists at the Harbin Institute of Technology are researching the potential to create supersonic submarines or future commercial transportation, by allowing the vessel to travel through generated supercavitation bubbles or large air pockets, which would theoretically be faster than the power from normal marine propulsion systems.

Scaled up into a full size ‘supersonic submarine’, such vessel could make the distance from Shanghai China to San Francisco, CA in less than two hours

If a submarine can achieve such speeds it might be very helpful with evading radar detection and increase mobility for operations in open oceans.
6,000 miles in an hour and a half?

That's 4,000 miles per hour. About Mach 6. Hypersonic speeds underwater. Sorry...too far fetched. Pure hypothetical...not practical with today's technology, or the forseeable future. Supercavitation is possible, and has been accomplished...but it is very difficult. The only deployed system was a very short ranged torpeo and had speeds around 250-300 miles per hour. But we're also very dangerous to the launching vessel.

As to avoiding radar, it is not radar they have to worry about. That kind of displacement of water, even at 1/5 the speed they are alluding to here is going to produce a sonar image that will be heard for hundreds of miles. Unmistakable.

Large vessels traveling at such sped will be easily detected...a firing solution would be created to cause an explosion or disturbance in front of the vessel, destroying the cavity wall, and the vessel would destroy itself on impact with the water.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
We are having a conversation about that article in the Scientific development thread, The fuel demands of a super cav submarine even at conventional speeds would be massive.
 

montyp165

Senior Member
Something like Seaquest would be the more plausible use of supercavitation on large subs, and even that was only 200 knots top speed.
 

A.Man

Major
6,000 miles in an hour and a half?

That's 4,000 miles per hour. About Mach 6. Hypersonic speeds underwater. Sorry...too far fetched. Pure hypothetical...not practical with today's technology, or the forseeable future. Supercavitation is possible, and has been accomplished...but it is very difficult. The only deployed system was a very short ranged torpeo and had speeds around 250-300 miles per hour. But we're also very dangerous to the launching vessel.

As to avoiding radar, it is not radar they have to worry about. That kind of displacement of water, even at 1/5 the speed they are alluding to here is going to produce a sonar image that will be heard for hundreds of miles. Unmistakable.

Large vessels traveling at such sped will be easily detected...a firing solution would be created to cause an explosion or disturbance in front of the vessel, destroying the cavity wall, and the vessel would destroy itself on impact with the water.
The speed of sound under water is about five times the speed of sound in the air.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Because of the salinity of fluids correct. in the ocean the Sound barrier is 1500 meters/sec, Jeff was correct as in the Air it would have been mach 6 but still the physics make this impractical.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
6,000 miles in an hour and a half?

That's 4,000 miles per hour. About Mach 6. Hypersonic speeds underwater. Sorry...too far fetched. Pure hypothetical...not practical with today's technology, or the forseeable future. Supercavitation is possible, and has been accomplished...but it is very difficult. The only deployed system was a very short ranged torpeo and had speeds around 250-300 miles per hour. But we're also very dangerous to the launching vessel.

As to avoiding radar, it is not radar they have to worry about. That kind of displacement of water, even at 1/5 the speed they are alluding to here is going to produce a sonar image that will be heard for hundreds of miles. Unmistakable.

Large vessels traveling at such sped will be easily detected...a firing solution would be created to cause an explosion or disturbance in front of the vessel, destroying the cavity wall, and the vessel would destroy itself on impact with the water.

Like I mention on the other thread does the opposing submarine have anything fast enough to reach that supersonic speed submarine? Regular torpedoes would run out of fuel chasing that thing before it armed itself to do any damage at all.
 
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