09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Blitzo]

there is some distortion of the satellite image with the latest GE update.

Using the measurement tool a 16.5m diameter of that particular circle is true, but the overall satellite image of Bohai is wavy and irregular so we don't know if that is the actual diameter of the circle, if it is indeed a hull section at all.

 

[FORBIN]

Yes, definitely Chinese nuclear subs all have double hulls. The Typhoon also has several separate pressure hulls in addition to the hydrodynamic hull.

Now that I think about it, the Oscar and Typhoon both have a 'flattened' tear drop hull, so that their actual internal volume is less than would be suggested with a perfectly round hull shape. That seems to make this 16.5m circular ring in the photo less likely to represent an actual submarine; that, or the measurements are inaccurate. After all, why build a 16.5m diameter SSBN when a 13.5m diameter hull with a small hump will suffice? For comparison:

Delta III/IV: 12.3m beam; Sineva: 14.8m x 1.9m, 8,300km
Triomphant: 12.5m beam; M51: 12m x 2.3m, 8,000-10,000km
Type 094: 12.5m beam; JL-2: 13m x 2m, 7,000-8,000km
Vanguard: 12.8m beam; Trident D-5: 13.6m x 2.1m, >12,000km
Ohio: 13.5m beam; Trident D-5: 13.6m x 2.1m, >12,000km
Borei: 13.5m beam; Bulava: 12.1m x 2.1m, >9,000km
Typhoon: 23m beam; Bulava: 12.1m x 2.1m, >9,000km

The only Typhoon, Donskoy in service have i think 2 tubes modified for Bulava only a test bed and quite sure all the more big SLBMs SS-N-20 retired a monster 16.1 x 2.4 m 84 tons but a Trident II more compact was better.

Better build a sub without hump for noise with hump ofc less hydrodynamic

 

[Hendrik_2000]

there is some distortion of the satellite image with the latest GE update.

Using the measurement tool a 16.5m diameter of that particular circle is true, but the overall satellite image of Bohai is wavy and irregular so we don't know if that is the actual diameter of the circle, if it is indeed a hull section at all.

The picture is taken from 75 to 80 Deg angle So it is close to 90 deg plan view therefore legit. And I agree that this could be module for the sub what following Chinese habit of strewing module close to the shipyard.Here is GT take on the news of permanent magnet motor successful test

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Propulsion system boosts submarine capability
China has conducted a trial run on the country's first permanent magnet propulsion motor for naval vessels, with experts saying that it marks a significant breakthrough in the country's naval vessel building industry, especially for the nuclear submarines.

The State-owned China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC), which is known for its aircraft carriers and the Jiaolong submersible vessel, made a statement on its official WeChat public account on Monday that the permanent magnet motor with a Chinese patent has been used on naval vessels docked at Sanya, South China's Hainan Province, the base of China's conventional and nuclear submarine fleet.

The statement said the vessel's propeller began to turn at 11 am on October 18, then reached the designated speed, which signified the success of the permanent magnet propulsion.

Although the statement did not disclose the type of vessels the motor was tested on, Chinese military experts say they believe the motor is specially designed for China's submarines and can substantially improve their performance in many aspects, especially by significantly reducing their running sound to the lowest possible level.

The new high-performance permanent magnet motors made from rare-earth materials avoid the flaws of traditional motors that work under the excitation principle, and can provide much greater power density, and can significantly reduce its working noise," Song Zhongping, a military analyst who previously served with the PLA Rocket Force, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Back in May, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, China's top naval engineer, in an interview with China Central Television, said that the navy was supplying its newest nuclear attack submarines with a "shaftless," rim-driven pump-jet, which was considered a revolutionary, low-noise propulsion system.

Ma said that the technology was ahead of the US and more efficient and suitable for high-speed nuclear submarines.
Newspaper headline: Propulsion system boosts submarine capability

 

[SinoSoldier]

The picture is taken from 75 to 80 Deg angle So it is close to 90 deg plan view therefore legit. And I agree that this could be module for the sub what following Chinese habit of strewing module close to the shipyard.Here is GT take on the news of permanent magnet motor successful test

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Propulsion system boosts submarine capability
China has conducted a trial run on the country's first permanent magnet propulsion motor for naval vessels, with experts saying that it marks a significant breakthrough in the country's naval vessel building industry, especially for the nuclear submarines.

The State-owned China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC), which is known for its aircraft carriers and the Jiaolong submersible vessel, made a statement on its official WeChat public account on Monday that the permanent magnet motor with a Chinese patent has been used on naval vessels docked at Sanya, South China's Hainan Province, the base of China's conventional and nuclear submarine fleet.

The statement said the vessel's propeller began to turn at 11 am on October 18, then reached the designated speed, which signified the success of the permanent magnet propulsion.

Although the statement did not disclose the type of vessels the motor was tested on, Chinese military experts say they believe the motor is specially designed for China's submarines and can substantially improve their performance in many aspects, especially by significantly reducing their running sound to the lowest possible level.

The new high-performance permanent magnet motors made from rare-earth materials avoid the flaws of traditional motors that work under the excitation principle, and can provide much greater power density, and can significantly reduce its working noise," Song Zhongping, a military analyst who previously served with the PLA Rocket Force, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Back in May, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, China's top naval engineer, in an interview with China Central Television, said that the navy was supplying its newest nuclear attack submarines with a "shaftless," rim-driven pump-jet, which was considered a revolutionary, low-noise propulsion system.

Ma said that the technology was ahead of the US and more efficient and suitable for high-speed nuclear submarines.
Newspaper headline: Propulsion system boosts submarine capability

Permanent magnet motors have a role in rim-drives, and Wärtsilä already offers such a propulsion system for sale. All the bits and pieces of what could become the next-generation PLAN submarine series (JL-3, IEPS, possible rim-drive, hull modules, etc.) are falling into place.

 

[Iron Man]

Back in May, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, China's top naval engineer, in an interview with China Central Television, said that the navy was supplying its newest nuclear attack submarines with a "shaftless," rim-driven pump-jet, which was considered a revolutionary, low-noise propulsion system.

Except that we have conclusively proven Admiral Ma said no such thing.

 

[jobjed]

Except that we have conclusively proven Admiral Ma said no such thing.

It's Global Times... not much better than National Interest as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Except that we have conclusively proven Admiral Ma said no such thing.

It is debatable what was said or not said. Based on the video, he pointed to the shroud propeller picture next to his motor. Just because he doesn't bring the subject does not mean it does not exist!
He is expert in electromagnetic but he is not the chief engineer for submarine project
I have no doubt that China is working on shaftless propeller everybody does so why china is the exception. It is the holy grail of submarine technology. In fact some manufacturer in Europe already offer this technology though in thruster.
It is not outlandish as you think. The problem is scaling it up for Submarine propulsion

 

[Iron Man]

It is debatable what was said or not said. Based on the video, he pointed to the shroud propeller picture next to his motor
He is expert in electromagnetic but he is not the chief engineer for submarine project
I have no doubt that China is working on shaftless propeller everybody does so why china is the exception

It is just not debatable. He did not in any way, shape, or form indicate that China was going to install shaftless rim propulsion on its latest subs. Also, China is almost certainly working on shaftless rim propulsion; who said China is an "exception" here? OTOH this has nothing to do with whether the latest Chinese subs were indicated by Admiral Ma as having shaftless rim propulsion in their designs.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

It is just not debatable. He did not in any way, shape, or form indicate that China was going to install shaftless rim propulsion on its latest subs. Also, China is almost certainly working on shaftless rim propulsion; who said China is an "exception" here? OTOH this has nothing to do with whether the latest Chinese subs were indicated by Admiral Ma as having shaftless rim propulsion in their designs.

He is not god and he is NOT the chief engineer for Submarine program It is not hid decision He is just one of the expert nothing more nothing less

 

[Iron Man]

He is not god and he is NOT the chief engineer for Submarine program It is not hid decision He is just one of the expert nothing more nothing less

I have no idea what you're even arguing for at this point. I pointed out in the article that you posted that Admiral Ma did NOT claim rim drive was going to be on the newest Chinese subs. This is a fact, like the fact that the sun rises every day. Is he "God"? No, but does he have to be God in order for him to NOT have said anything about rim drive during his interview? Stop moving the goalposts (again).