09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Here is the article. We all know those infamous ONI Noise chart is bogus so disregard it. But the rest of article is interesting
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China takes the dive, puts thrust on building nuclear submarines
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23 October, 2017

HLD1.001-696x522.jpeg

Huladao Nuclear Submarine Production Facility | Source: Vinayak Bhat
Xi Jinping’s ‘China Dream’ gave boost to its Blue Water navy ambitions and funds were made available for the expansion of the nuclear submarine programme.

Every country with Blue Water navy ambitions needs nuclear submarines to carry ballistic missiles quietly closer to its adversary’s shores. And that includes China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN).

China’s submarine force, especially the nuclear submarine force, has been derided by most Western analysts as the noisiest and therefore easily detectable. The chart below by the US Office of Naval Intelligence or ONI has been reproduced by many websites.

HAINAN-chinasubsound-1.jpg

Hainin China subsound | Source: Vinayak Bhat
China has pursued construction of its nuclear submarines with a single-minded determination and speed. China’s nuclear submarines or SSN count varies from 11 to 13 with four Type 91 Han-class (one not active) and 8 to 10 Type 93 Shang-class variants.

The nuclear ballistic missiles carrying submarines or SSBN count is at least 7, with one Type 92 Xia-class and rest Type 94 Jin-class. The nuclear submarines of PLAN have all been constructed at Bohai Shipbuilding Heavy Industry Company Limited (BSHIC) at Huludao. The BSHIC is probably a subsidiary of China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation or CSIC.

Expansion of production facility
The Huludao facility felt the need for additional space when it started construction of Type 94 Jin-class submarines some time in 2005.Although the need for expansion was felt a while back, the project was constrained by the availability of funds. The expansion work was thus limited to land reclamation only, which continued from 2007 to 2013.

Xi Jinping’s ‘China Dream’ gave boost to the Blue Water navy ambitions and possibly funds were made available for the expansion of BSHIC’s nuclear submarine programme. The new facility on the Eastern side of Bohai shipyard started construction in mid-2015. The construction became visible and clear by mid-2016.

Gigantic new facility
The gigantic nature of this facility was revealed when the assembly hall could be compared with Hall No. 42 of Russian Severodvinsk submarine construction facility.
The size of BSHIC Huludao hall is 285 m x 130 m with more than 40,000 sq m area.

The height is almost double the previous halls in that location. It has three bays with large overhead double girder magnet gantry cranes fitted it, which could easily shift/move submarine modules to and fro. The width of girders at the top of gantries is 9 m, suggesting they could lift very heavy loads.

There is another hall of 200 m x 170 m being constructed to the north of this assembly hall. This probably will produce modules for submarines. It has five bays, two of which are smaller than others. Both the halls have traverser rails in front for transfer of modules from one hall to the other.

Thus this new assembly hall could possibly construct six nuclear submarines at any given time. The hall not only provides the workers and equipment from harsh weather conditions of Huludao but also provides cover from the prying eyes of satellites that could learn about PLAN submarine progress.

HLD2.001.jpeg

Huludao Nuclear Submarine Assembly Hall | Source: Vinayak Bhat
New submarine revealed
A closer look while assessing this facility revealed some parts, possibly of a new submarine. The width of these parts is almost 16.5 m, suggesting the probable beam of the new submarine is more than 16.5 m. It is assessed that this new submarine which possibly is the new nuclear submarine of China’s PLAN Type 96 which is rumoured to have 24x Julang 3 or JL 3 ballistic missiles with an estimated range between 8,000 km to 12,000 km.

A 16.5 m beam with approximately 4 m of hump would easily accommodate every Dong Feng or DF missile in China’s nuclear ballistic missiles inventory.

Implications
It is assessed that the new submarine production facility constructed at Huludao will enhance the speed of the Chinese PLAN nuclear submarine production by at least six times. Any increase in China’s equipment profile would have an effect on India’s security scenario. This particular capability would increase China’s abilities to snoop on Indian naval activities in the Indian Ocean Region and the Arabian Sea.

China’s nuclear submarines have been visiting Karachi and Colombo. China has also been a supplier of submarines to Pakistan and Bangladesh. It will be interesting to watch if China would proliferate the new nuclear submarines to its favourite, Pakistan. The Julang 2 and 3 with 8,000 km or more range can cover the entire IOR with ease. The looming threat of Julang missiles will be omnipresent.

HLD4.001.jpeg
 

by78

General
New update from our sat analyst "RAJ47": possible submarine hull component with a diameter of 16.5 meters
View attachment 42701

That doesn't look like a submarine hull section to me. One, its diameter is too large. Two, what are they doing on the ground in the open? Not the kind of practice one would expect from building a submarine. And finally, how might sailors move about inside the submarine when there are what appears to be beams spanning the hull cross-section? But I could be wrong. Maybe the beams are only temporary.
 
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SinoSoldier

Colonel
That doesn't look like a submarine hull section to me. One, its diameter is too large. Two, what are they doing on the ground in the open? Not the kind of practice one would expect from building a submarine. And finally, how might sailors move about inside the submarine when there are what appears to be beams obstructing the hull cross-section? But I could be wrong. Maybe the beams are only temporary.

The beams probably could be removed, as demonstrated in the below photo of an IN Scorpène during construction:
Scorpène.jpg

We've seen Chinese shipyards leaving submarine modules in the open before, so this practice isn't something out of the ordinary. As for the large diameter, it merely points towards a larger sub design, which shouldn't be unexpected as the PLAN adopts larger SLBMs.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
That doesn't look like a submarine hull section to me. One, its diameter is too large. Two, what are they doing on the ground in the open? Not the kind of practice one would expect from building a submarine. And finally, how might sailors move about inside the submarine when there are what appears to be beams spanning the hull cross-section? But I could be wrong. Maybe the beams are only temporary.
It's not too large compared to the Typhoon at 23m or the Oscar at 18.2m. At that size a 096 could house JL-3s with no hump at all, assuming they are similar to Trident D-5s in size (13.6m x 2.1m):

Type 096 with JL-3.png

This is a 16.5m diameter hull with two SLBMs of dimensions 13.6m x 2.1m; the human is 1.75m tall. As you can see there is plenty of room for a larger missile in both length and diameter and still have no hump.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The beams probably could be removed, as demonstrated in the below photo of an IN Scorpène during construction:
View attachment 42705

We've seen Chinese shipyards leaving submarine modules in the open before, so this practice isn't something out of the ordinary. As for the large diameter, it merely points towards a larger sub design, which shouldn't be unexpected as the PLAN adopts larger SLBMs.
It's not too large compared to the Typhoon at 23m or the Oscar at 18.2m. At that size a 096 could house JL-3s with no hump at all, assuming they are similar to Trident D-5s in size (13.6m x 2.1m):

View attachment 42707

This is a 16.5m diameter hull with two SLBMs of dimensions 13.6m x 2.1m; the human is 1.75m tall. As you can see there is plenty of room for a larger missile in both length and diameter and still have no hump.
The report is inexact for submarine numbers for new Shang i know the job is very difficult but for 094/094A a big error exist only 4 and not 6 in more it is an info very accessible

But why this hull's element is outside of the all new large building build especialy to build in interior submarines really curious.

BTW in more for such weapons quite sure no comfirmation or invalidation before a while
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Deino or other mods
With a eventual new Type 096 now 4 Classes here... and not the same category SSBNs and SSNs
i think for a better understanding to divide the topic in two :
- 093 and 095
- 094 and 096

Thank you
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
It's not too large compared to the Typhoon at 23m or the Oscar at 18.2m. At that size a 096 could house JL-3s with no hump at all, assuming they are similar to Trident D-5s in size (13.6m x 2.1m):

View attachment 42707

This is a 16.5m diameter hull with two SLBMs of dimensions 13.6m x 2.1m; the human is 1.75m tall. As you can see there is plenty of room for a larger missile in both length and diameter and still have no hump.
Almost sure make sense it is a double hull... if this subs exist...
Soviet/Russians build almost only double hulls submarines since WWII mainly nuclears all have except 2 which are 1.5 hull Yasen and SSK Lada, eventualy Borey SSBN.
Between 2 hulls dépends classes minimum 1 m for Oscar IRC about 3 m with inside SS-N-19 launchers.

And except Russia China is the only country for obvious reasons to build double hulls Yuan variant of Kilo sure and Han, Shang i think also the 2 SSBNs classes and Song.

For recognize enough easy many small holes/gills ? for empty very big ballast
advantages more resistant Russian nuclears are those who dive deeper with Seawolf ( no 2 hulls ) and logicaly it reduces the risks a critical hit a breach in the pressure hull by a torpedoe.
Disasvantage more Noisy less hydrodynamic with all the holes and more difficult for construction.

Others countries especialy Western Subs 1 hull ballasts to front and rear for same size about an Akula is 20/30 % more big than a Virginia or Los Angeles.

Oscar II, 2 hulls
RU Oscar.jpg

Yasen 1.5 hull, 2 hulls to center
RU Yasen 885.jpg

Here clearly visible holes and large slots
Chine SNA.jpg
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Almost sure make sense it is a double hull... if this subs exist...
Soviet/Russians build almost only double hulls submarines since WWII mainly nuclears all have except 2 which are 1.5 hull Yasen and SSK Lada, eventualy Borey SSBN.
Between 2 hulls dépends classes minimum 1 m for Oscar IRC about 3 m with inside SS-N-19 launchers.

And except Russia China is the only country for obvious reasons to build double hulls Yuan variant of Kilo sure and Han, Shang i think also the 2 SSBNs classes and Song.

For recognize enough easy many small holes/gills ? for empty very big ballast
advantages more resistant Russian nuclears are those who dive deeper with Seawolf ( no 2 hulls ) and logicaly it reduces the risks a critical hit a breach in the pressure hull by a torpedoe.
Disasvantage more Noisy less hydrodynamic with all the holes and more difficult for construction.

Others countries especialy Western Subs 1 hull ballasts to front and rear for same size about an Akula is 20/30 % more big than a Virginia or Los Angeles.

Oscar II, 2 hulls
View attachment 42720

Yasen 1.5 hull, 2 hulls to center
View attachment 42721

Here clearly visible holes and large slots
View attachment 42722
Yes, definitely Chinese nuclear subs all have double hulls. The Typhoon also has several separate pressure hulls in addition to the hydrodynamic hull.

Now that I think about it, the Oscar and Typhoon both have a 'flattened' tear drop hull, so that their actual internal volume is less than would be suggested with a perfectly round hull shape. That seems to make this 16.5m circular ring in the photo less likely to represent an actual submarine; that, or the measurements are inaccurate. After all, why build a 16.5m diameter SSBN when a 13.5m diameter hull with a small hump will suffice? For comparison:

Delta III/IV: 12.3m beam; Sineva: 14.8m x 1.9m, 8,300km
Triomphant: 12.5m beam; M51: 12m x 2.3m, 8,000-10,000km
Type 094: 12.5m beam; JL-2: 13m x 2m, 7,000-8,000km
Vanguard: 12.8m beam; Trident D-5: 13.6m x 2.1m, >12,000km
Ohio: 13.5m beam; Trident D-5: 13.6m x 2.1m, >12,000km
Borei: 13.5m beam; Bulava: 12.1m x 2.1m, >9,000km
Typhoon: 23m beam; Bulava: 12.1m x 2.1m, >9,000km
 

Daniel707

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes, definitely Chinese nuclear subs all have double hulls. The Typhoon also has several separate pressure hulls in addition to the hydrodynamic hull.

Now that I think about it, the Oscar and Typhoon both have a 'flattened' tear drop hull, so that their actual internal volume is less than would be suggested with a perfectly round hull shape. That seems to make this 16.5m circular ring in the photo less likely to represent an actual submarine; that, or the measurements are inaccurate. After all, why build a 16.5m diameter SSBN when a 13.5m diameter hull with a small hump will suffice? For comparison:

Delta III/IV: 12.3m beam; Sineva: 14.8m x 1.9m, 8,300km
Triomphant: 12.5m beam; M51: 12m x 2.3m, 8,000-10,000km
Type 094: 12.5m beam; JL-2: 13m x 2m, 7,000-8,000km
Vanguard: 12.8m beam; Trident D-5: 13.6m x 2.1m, >12,000km
Ohio: 13.5m beam; Trident D-5: 13.6m x 2.1m, >12,000km
Borei: 13.5m beam; Bulava: 12.1m x 2.1m, >9,000km
Typhoon: 23m beam; Bulava: 12.1m x 2.1m, >9,000km

From what we see in Type 032 Submarine Upgrade a couple months ago, at least they need more 1.5-2 meters bigger to accomodate new JL-3 SLBM.
So, I assume JL-3 SLBM length at least to be 1.5 meter more (14.5 meter) than JL-2.

With such size of SLBM, than if Type 096 SSBN have Beam 16.5 meter, It's really possible.

I think we will not see hump again in their new Type 096 SSBN.
 
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