071 LPD thread

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Now I know we have been throgh this before but just for the sake of completeness here's more evidance that the hanger of the Type 071 LPD can load 4 x Z8 sized helos

In the first pic that black silly looking nose cone is is not beyond the grey bar on the roof, these two helos are fully inserted and don't cross beyond the grey line inside the roof hanger

See where the grey bar/line or partition is in the picture below its around half way inside the hanger

I think this is the clearest photographic evidence of the size of the hanger we have seen clearly telling us what we already knew that is 4 x Z8 can fit inside the hanger

 

[PanAsian]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Now I know we have been throgh this before but just for the sake of completeness here's more evidance that the hanger of the Type 071 LPD can load 4 x Z8 sized helos

In the first pic that black silly looking nose cone is is not beyond the grey bar on the roof, these two helos are fully inserted and don't cross beyond the grey line inside the roof hanger

See where the grey bar/line or partition is in the picture below its around half way inside the hanger

I think this is the clearest photographic evidence of the size of the hanger we have seen clearly telling us what we already knew that is 4 x Z8 can fit inside the hanger

I wonder if this hangar can fit 2x Z-8, 2x Z-10, and 2x Z-19 at the same time. Or any combination of 6-8 of the Z-9 derived types.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I wonder if this hangar can fit 2x Z-8, 2x Z-10, and 2x Z-19 at the same time. Or any combination of 6-8 of the Z-9 derived types.

I think we should think of the hanger as just being a space that can handle 4 medium sized helos nothing more

When we start looking how many can we fit then we are in a game playing mode which I think we shouldnt try because we will never be correct

But looking at the above I can envisage 3 attack helos in 3 columns so may be 9 in the hanger because attack helo are not wide and if the tail folds really you have a much smaller unit

So overall a single Type 071 LPD can carry 4 x LCAC, 4 x Medium sized helos and around 18 x ZBD2000 vehicles in the two front compartments

And also let's remember each LCAC can lift a large assortment of vehicles in my configurations which gives 4 x LCAC a very good landing capability after which the IFV can swim to the shores while the helos do air drops

Type 071 LPD is a over the horizon amphibious assault vessel with very good power projection and sea going capability

I would just like to one day see its capabilitys being fully utilised

 

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

They need to redesign the LCACs a little for greater area.
And I believe the forward vehicle hall would be better used carrying larger vehicles that cannot be used in the well deck and require LCAC transport, such as large IFVs, MBTs, etc. I'd be surprised if 4 LCACs are ever fully utilized -- I think they're better off replacing having just 2 LCACs and fill the vacant space with ZBD05s.

As for the helicopter hangar, I think they could conceivably fit 6 Z-9s in the space of 4 Z-8s, but they would need to stagger them and probably won't have much room for maintenance.
For an amphibious assault loadout Z-9s won't be much use anyway, given their small size, and Z-8s with their greater troops carrying capacity are much superior.


What I'm more concerned with is the sudden stop in 071 production. They produced 998, paused, then pumped out the following two units fairly quickly. I wonder if this lull in production is due to PLAN requirements being filled, or the need to train up crews for future ships.
Optimally I'd like to see a PLAN sea going amphibious fleet of 6+ LPDs and 3+ LHA/Ds, with one LHA and two LHDs continuously out at sea (think indian ocean/aden) with a few frigates a destroyer or cruiser, and a couple of AORs, to respond to situations.
Basically, PLAN should have three ESGs, with one out at blue ocean at any one time (other two at land, training, refit, etc), with all three available on a surge basis during emergencies.

Optimally this would be on top of 3-5 CVBGs, also with one out at sea at any one time, including a carrier, 2 frigates, 2 destroyers, a cruiser, SSN, and an AOR.

But of course it would take many years to produce the ships, more years to get sailors to use them well, and even more years again to organize the vessels, the doctrine, and the infrastructure to maintain and use such a force.
But hopefully this may become a reality by 2050. If PLAN can achieve all the above, I think they would have the navy they need both to defend what foreign interests they'll have by then, intervene in few regions necessary (possibly in coalition with western powers by that point -- I expect terrorism will only grow to be a bigger nuisance and a uniting force for most of the world), while defending homewaters and keeping SLOCs open and free.

 

[tphuang]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I think we should think of the hanger as just being a space that can handle 4 medium sized helos nothing more

When we start looking how many can we fit then we are in a game playing mode which I think we shouldnt try because we will never be correct

But looking at the above I can envisage 3 attack helos in 3 columns so may be 9 in the hanger because attack helo are not wide and if the tail folds really you have a much smaller unit

So overall a single Type 071 LPD can carry 4 x LCAC, 4 x Medium sized helos and around 18 x ZBD2000 vehicles in the two front compartments

And also let's remember each LCAC can lift a large assortment of vehicles in my configurations which gives 4 x LCAC a very good landing capability after which the IFV can swim to the shores while the helos do air drops

Type 071 LPD is a over the horizon amphibious assault vessel with very good power projection and sea going capability

I would just like to one day see its capabilitys being fully utilised

i'm waiting to see more Type 726 produced at this point. I'm not sure why they are not. It might be an engine issue.

 

[delft]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I expect terrorism will only grow to be a bigger nuisance and a uniting force for most of the world

OT
I do not think that likely. Terrorism has been largely used by the US. See for an early example the post script in Graham Green's novel "The Quiet American" about terrorists preparing the ground for the Ngo Dinh Diem dictatorship in South Vietnam. Many of the later terrorists were trained by the US and only directed their activities against the US when they felt betrayed by them. Think of Afghanistan and AQ, think of Libya. By now the US should abandon their "War against Terrorism", because it is the most effective recruiting sergeant for many terrorist organisations. If they had allowed the Islamic Courts to pacify Somalia there would by now be no piracy from that country ( it was already markedly down by the time they were attacked by Ethiopia ) and the US could have used diplomatic means to convince Somalia not to maintain connections with AQ ( if that were really necessary ). The recent capture of Al Libi, presented as a major success by the US, was condemned yesterday in an editorial in the Dutch center right newspaper I subscribe to as a major violation of international law, although no doubt legal under US law, and tending to reduce the standing of the US in the World, as well as sending scores of young recruits to AQ.
"When China rules the World" it will have absorbed this experience and continue to avoid using terrorists.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

i'm waiting to see more Type 726 produced at this point. I'm not sure why they are not. It might be an engine issue.

Well you would think so, it certainly is strange why they stopped at three units

Engine issue is possible but we have seem Type 726 in action carrying a MBT, must have some engine power if it can lift a main battle tank

US LCAC can lift 70 tons don't think Type 726 could do that but certainly come close to it, maybe with this ToT with Zubr they can get hands on and more knowledge on more powerful engines on LCAC

 

[ladioussupp]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

According to Kanwa, Jiannan begun to construct "improved" 071 LPD which weighs over 30,000 tons and carries 6 LCAC (type 726).

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No matter it is true or not, is it appropriate to put six LCAC into one LPD? Too many eggs in a basket.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

According to Kanwa, Jiannan begun to construct "improved" 071 LPD which weighs over 30,000 tons and carries 6 LCAC (type 726).

No matter it is true or not, is it appropriate to put six LCAC into one LPD? Too many eggs in a basket.

The most the US ever had was four on the Whidbey Island class, which displaced 16,100 tons. But the US Navy decreased this on the large 40,000 Wasp to three. The San Antonio Class LPDs for the US Navy carry 2 LCACs. The existing PLAN LPD Type 071 can carry four, and that's a lot.

To have six, the vessel would have to be quite a bit longer and would have to structurally be able to handle that distance of an opening/vacancy along its hull.

I view this as not likely, but some strange things happen under the sun, and it certainly could be done of the PLAN wants to.

 

[chuck731]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Type 0726 LCAC's basic dimensions are 30 meters long by 16 meters wide.

To accommodate 6 of them in a single column would require this improved 071 to have a well deck ~200 meters long. Basic 071 is only 210 meters long overall. To accommodate a 200 meter well deck, plus other necessities such as troop quarters, equipment store, hospital, command center, etc, we are looking at a hull 280-300 meters easy, or roughly Liaoning length.

To accommodate them 2 abreast would require the well deck to be 34-35 meters wide to supply basic clearance. The entire hull would need to be about 40 meters wide. In other words, as wide as USS Ford.

Either way, any ship that accommodate 6 Type 726 LCACs in an integral well deck would be monstrous in either length or width, probably both.

I think the reason why one might need such a ship is if one plan to hold a large amphibious force ready at sea for a long time, to provide a large force presence in a distant theater. I don't think such a ship would be needed for any amphibious operations likely to be launched from mainland china, such as a cross channel assault against Taiwan, or an attack against a vietnam or phillipine held island.