071 LPD thread

[chuck731]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

What makes you think Chinese warships in the Med would have any intentions of getting involved in Syria in any direct way? China is not heavily invested or committed to Syria, and it makes little difference to China what ultimately happens to Assad. China will object to US military action out of principle because its against international law and norms, and will side with Russia to show support and solidarity, but China doesn't care about Syria remotely enough to want to get involved in this mess..

There are different levels of "getting involved". The Chinese doesn't have nearly enough at stake in Syria to do things that would prompt US retaliation or motive American grudge keeping. But when American involvement is unpopular with regional powers and other stake holders, the Chinese have an opportunity to ingratiate itself with those other interests at almost no cost to itself and at no significant, grudge worthy, inconvenience to the US. Sending a LPD with relief supplies would be one way to take advantage of this opportunity. Since the LPD is a naval vessel, sending LPD with relief supplies also builds some basis for positive feeling for future deployment of Chinese naval forces into the region.

In any future crisis that does involve China, sending a PLAN naval force to an area where PLAN forces normally do not go would be in itself destabilizing. So as China increase in global influence and anticipate having more interests to defend in farther parts of the world, and therefore become more likely to be involved in crisis effecting chinese interests in distant regions, China should be proactive and acclimate the world to the presence of its naval forces by going to these regions at times when there is no crisis, make itself visible, hopefully in ways that make China look good. This would make the presence of Chinese naval forces seem like the norm and not a sudden destabilizing development at the time of crisis.

 

[Equation]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

There are different levels of "getting involved". The Chinese doesn't have nearly enough at stake in Syria to do things that would prompt US retaliation or motive American grudge keeping. But when American involvement is unpopular with regional powers and other stake holders, the Chinese have an opportunity to ingratiate itself with those other interests at almost no cost to itself and at no significant, grudge worthy, inconvenience to the US. Sending a LPD with relief supplies would be one way to take advantage of this opportunity. Since the LPD is a naval vessel, sending LPD with relief supplies also builds some basis for positive feeling for future deployment of Chinese naval forces into the region.

In any future crisis that does involve China, sending a PLAN naval force to an area where PLAN forces normally do not go would be in itself destabilizing. So as China increase in global influence and anticipate having more interests to defend in farther parts of the world, and therefore become more likely to be involved in crisis effecting chinese interests in distant regions, China should be proactive and acclimate the world to the presence of its naval forces by going to these regions at times when there is no crisis, make itself visible, hopefully in ways that make China look good. This would make the presence of Chinese naval forces seem like the norm and not a sudden destabilizing development at the time of crisis.

I doubt the Chinese are interested in becoming a world police. Like I said before the Chinese and the US are NOT going to do anything too irrational to offset the Sino-US relations that both countries economies depends on greatly. The only grudge match I see going on is between Russia and the US/EU. Putin is having a heck of a time poking eyes at NATO and the US foreign diplomatic stance at this time.

 

[plawolf]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

There are different levels of "getting involved". The Chinese doesn't have nearly enough at stake in Syria to do things that would prompt US retaliation or motive American grudge keeping. But when American involvement is unpopular with regional powers and other stake holders, the Chinese have an opportunity to ingratiate itself with those other interests at almost no cost to itself and at no significant, grudge worthy, inconvenience to the US. Sending a LPD with relief supplies would be one way to take advantage of this opportunity. Since the LPD is a naval vessel, sending LPD with relief supplies also builds some basis for positive feeling for future deployment of Chinese naval forces into the region.

The problem with that is you are assuming there is only one side to the conflict when there are in fact two. The central problem with the conflict in Syria is that it is part of a wider Shia-Sunni blood feud, and while Shia Iran may be deeply opposed to US military involvement, Saudi Arabia and other Sunni Gulf States positively demand it. If China tries too hard to ingratiate itself with one side, it cannot help but offend the other.

Even something as innocent as relief supplies can cause all sorts of headaches. Who exactly do you suggest China give those supplies to? Government forces? The rebels? Unless China commits to boots on the ground, it has no distribution channels to get those supplies to anyone who needs it, so it needs intermediaries, and who you choose to distribute the supplies to can be seen as the side you have chosen to back.

There is, of course also the rather big problem that since 999 has been on anti-piracy duties for the last few months, it almost certainly does not carry any emergency relief supplies to hand out even if Beijing wanted to do that.

The only use 999 would serve in this particular instance is to act as transport if China decides to pull its nationals out, and that is a perfectly valid reason for it to be deployed to the Med. China might have done an exemplary job evacuating its nationals from Libya, but that effort cost the Chinese government a great deal of coin. Having an LPD on station would not only make the evacuation far easier and safer, but would also save the Chinese taxpayer a tidy sum in transport and accommodation costs if it did come to a massed evacuation.

In any future crisis that does involve China, sending a PLAN naval force to an area where PLAN forces normally do not go would be in itself destabilizing....

I completely reject that notion. How would a pair of Chinese warships minding their own business in the Med be destabilising in the slightest? That suggestion flies completely in the face of the notion of free navigation and makes no sense as far as I can see.

 

[chuck731]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I doubt the Chinese are interested in becoming a world police. Like I said before the Chinese and the US are NOT going to do anything too irrational to offset the Sino-US relations that both countries economies depends on greatly. The only grudge match I see going on is between Russia and the US/EU. Putin is having a heck of a time poking eyes at NATO and the US foreign diplomatic stance at this time.

It's not about policying the world for the common good. It's about having more means to influence the outcomes of events in a part of the world where you have a long term interest.

 

[chuck731]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I completely reject that notion. How would a pair of Chinese warships minding their own business in the Med be destabilising in the slightest? That suggestion flies completely in the face of the notion of free navigation and makes no sense as far as I can see.

Warships do not exist in order to "minding its own business" when the country to which it belongs is involved in any potential confrontation with another country.

Freedom of navigation only applies when it is not in the interest of major naval powers to reject it. In confrontation between major naval power each has abiding interest in rejecting the freedom of navigation of its opponent. See cuban missile crisis.

 

[Equation]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Warships do not exist in order to "minding its own business" when the country to which it belongs is involved in any potential confrontation with another country.

Freedom of navigation only applies when it is not in the interest of major naval powers to reject it. In confrontation between major naval power each has abiding interest in rejecting the freedom of navigation of its opponent. See cuban missile crisis.

The Cuban crisis became a such a big deal because Russia didn't want the US at the time to place their missiles near their border in Turkey as well (not too many people knew this). It's the sort of game of "I will let go if only you let go as well". IF there is a confrontation than I would agreed with you, but since there isn't one between China and whoever that may be as of now. Therefore we can safely say as plawolf puts it 'minding their own business', after all it's in international waters.

It's not about policying the world for the common good. It's about having more means to influence the outcomes of events in a part of the world where you have a long term interest.

You could do that with diplomacy alone by using economics and trades as a factor instead of military.

 

[hardware]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft


picture of chinese hovercraft including her (partial0 interior

 

[delft]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

The Cuban crisis became a such a big deal because Russia didn't want the US at the time to place their missiles near their border in Turkey as well (not too many people knew this). It's the sort of game of "I will let go if only you let go as well".

There were Jupiter missiles in Turkey and Italy, Thor missiles in England. I remember an article from the late '50's, IIRC it was in a magazine called Flying Review, in which a US officer showed the preparation for launch of a Thor, raising it to vertical, - was it really fueled, I'm not sure, but think it must have been -, showed the panel for launching with two locks for the US and the UK keys, took the US key out of his pocket, inserted and turned it, then took the British key out of his pocket, inserted and turned that and said - Now it can be launched.

 

[steve_rolfe]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

There were Jupiter missiles in Turkey and Italy, Thor missiles in England. I remember an article from the late '50's, IIRC it was in a magazine called Flying Review, in which a US officer showed the preparation for launch of a Thor, raising it to vertical, - was it really fueled, I'm not sure, but think it must have been -, showed the panel for launching with two locks for the US and the UK keys, took the US key out of his pocket, inserted and turned it, then took the British key out of his pocket, inserted and turned that and said - Now it can be launched.

Yes....many in UK dont seem to know that we had land based nuclear missiles, before the sub-launched Polaris system came along.

Anyway, between 1958-1962 there were quite a lot of these 'Thor' missile bases along the East coast of England, and each base housed 3 missiles, which were housed in horizontal bunkers, mounted on a railing system, so that the housing could be retracted, and the missile positioned into a vertical position.

I live in one of the small villages in East Anglia, where there was a Thor missile base........and locals everynow and then could get to see these large missiles in there firing positions!

In fact, there are still remains of one of the missile pads, just outside my village.

Oh yes, and in answer to your question, i believe the missiles had to be fuelled after there housings were removed. The fuel tanks were also on, and part of the missile pad.

 

[ladioussupp]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Basketball field inside type 071 , pennant number 999, LPD in the 15th escort task force.