071 LPD thread
- Thread starter sumdud
- Start date
plawolf
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
Having seen videos of the 726 docking, I think a more pressing requirement might be to actually reduce the overall width to make docking easier because at present the amount of clearance just seems too small for comfort.
Even in calm seas, it takes great skill and precision and probably a big slice of luck to get docking right first time round, and even under ideal conditions its a slow process to get them docked. In Rough and choppy seas, it may simply be too much to expect the crews to be able to dock the things reliably and it will just be a case of relying on luck to get the LCACs docked.
Either way, I think that represents a possible bottleneck and limitation on when the Type 726 can be efficiently used, especially if they want to launch multiple waves of attacks using them.
So, I would much rather they redesigned the 726 to either keep the parking area the same, or even reduced it slightly if it means the overall width can be reduced enough to make docking easier so that the turn around time can be significantly reduced and the 726s can be deployed in far rougher sea states.
Having seen videos of the 726 docking, I think a more pressing requirement might be to actually reduce the overall width to make docking easier because at present the amount of clearance just seems too small for comfort.
Even in calm seas, it takes great skill and precision and probably a big slice of luck to get docking right first time round, and even under ideal conditions its a slow process to get them docked. In Rough and choppy seas, it may simply be too much to expect the crews to be able to dock the things reliably and it will just be a case of relying on luck to get the LCACs docked.
Either way, I think that represents a possible bottleneck and limitation on when the Type 726 can be efficiently used, especially if they want to launch multiple waves of attacks using them.
So, I would much rather they redesigned the 726 to either keep the parking area the same, or even reduced it slightly if it means the overall width can be reduced enough to make docking easier so that the turn around time can be significantly reduced and the 726s can be deployed in far rougher sea states.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
what's the dimension of the well deck opening of the 071 compared to the Wasp class? I think the two LCACs are almost similar in dimension right?
what's the dimension of the well deck opening of the 071 compared to the Wasp class? I think the two LCACs are almost similar in dimension right?
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
However, when it comes to the LCAC and its fit, that doesn't matter because the well decks on both US vessels are exactly the same size.
The Type 726 PLAN LCAC is actually larger than the US LCAC. And that size makes a difference.
Here's the San Antonio well deck compared to the US LCAC;
San Antonio well deck width: 50 ft.
US LCAC width: 47 ft.
This gives the US well deck a full three feet clearance, 1 1/2 feet on each side.
By comparison, here's the PLAN Type 071 and the Type 726 LCAC:
Type 071 LPD well deck width: 53.5 ft.
Type 725 LCAC width: 52 ft
This means there is only 9 inches of clearance on each side for the Chinese LCAC...1 1/2 foot total clearance.
This makes it much harder to maneuver a Chinese LCAC into a Type 071 at sea...very hard indeed in any sea state beyond calm. Even then it would be hard.
Here's the overall LCAC and LPD dimensions:
US Navy LCAC:
Length: 87 ft
Width: 47 ft
Type 726 PLAN LCAC:
Length: 98 ft.
Width: 52 ft
Type 071 well Deck:
Length: 400 ft. (Approx)
Well Deck Opening: 53-54 ft.
San Antonio Well Deck:
Length: 267 ft.
Well Deck Opening: 50 ft.
Well, the PLAN Type 071 LPD is closest in size and function to the San Antonio Class LPD in the US Navy. The Wasp Class LHD is a much larger vessel.
However, when it comes to the LCAC and its fit, that doesn't matter because the well decks on both US vessels are exactly the same size.
The Type 726 PLAN LCAC is actually larger than the US LCAC. And that size makes a difference.
Here's the San Antonio well deck compared to the US LCAC;
San Antonio well deck width: 50 ft.
US LCAC width: 47 ft.
This gives the US well deck a full three feet clearance, 1 1/2 feet on each side.
By comparison, here's the PLAN Type 071 and the Type 726 LCAC:
Type 071 LPD well deck width: 53.5 ft.
Type 725 LCAC width: 52 ft
This means there is only 9 inches of clearance on each side for the Chinese LCAC...1 1/2 foot total clearance.
This makes it much harder to maneuver a Chinese LCAC into a Type 071 at sea...very hard indeed in any sea state beyond calm. Even then it would be hard.
Here's the overall LCAC and LPD dimensions:
US Navy LCAC:
Length: 87 ft
Width: 47 ft
Type 726 PLAN LCAC:
Length: 98 ft.
Width: 52 ft
Type 071 well Deck:
Length: 400 ft. (Approx)
Well Deck Opening: 53-54 ft.
San Antonio Well Deck:
Length: 267 ft.
Well Deck Opening: 50 ft.
Last edited:
kwaigonegin
Colonel
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
wow! if you're right, 9 inches is extremely difficult to put her into the hole in high sea state no matter the skill of the driver w/o scraping and damaging the ship and/or the LCAC! Heck 9 inches is about what I have going into my garage at home.
ok I don't want to sound harsh but if those dimensions are true some engineer or designer needs to be fired. For safety sake as well, once the LCAC is docked you want to have at least have enough space on at least one side to fit a human through as well. If all you have is 9 inches even if the LCAC is park closer to one side, you'll only have maybe 12-15 inches of space on the other which is barely enough to squeeze a human through unless PLAN Marines are skinny like those models you see on the Pictures thread that Equation wants to marry..
wow! if you're right, 9 inches is extremely difficult to put her into the hole in high sea state no matter the skill of the driver w/o scraping and damaging the ship and/or the LCAC! Heck 9 inches is about what I have going into my garage at home.
ok I don't want to sound harsh but if those dimensions are true some engineer or designer needs to be fired. For safety sake as well, once the LCAC is docked you want to have at least have enough space on at least one side to fit a human through as well. If all you have is 9 inches even if the LCAC is park closer to one side, you'll only have maybe 12-15 inches of space on the other which is barely enough to squeeze a human through unless PLAN Marines are skinny like those models you see on the Pictures thread that Equation wants to marry..
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
I always envisage China establishing an amphibious Flotilla for each of its fleet, made up of 3 x Type 071 LPD and adding in a LHD to make four assault ships per fleet or 12 for the whole PLAN that would mean 9 x Type 071 LPD and 3 x LHD
This would mean at any given time PLAN could deploy 6 LPD and 2 LHD, enough to transport at least one of its full strength marine bridges plus all their equipment
Add to that all their other transport ships like landing crafts and landing tank crafts etc. that would give China a huge amphibious assault capability
Also add to each fleet a CV and CVN and you have a two carrier fleet to total 6 carriers for whole PLAN with Liaoning as a training carrier to make the 7th carrier
Each CV (~65,000 ton) lifts 36 fighter aircraft and each CVN (~100,000 ton) lifts 48 fighter aircraft
So that’s 24 fighter aircraft for Liaoning, 36 for CV and 48 for CVN, total carrier fighter aircraft numbers are 276 or 23 x 12 carrier squadrons
I always envisage China establishing an amphibious Flotilla for each of its fleet, made up of 3 x Type 071 LPD and adding in a LHD to make four assault ships per fleet or 12 for the whole PLAN that would mean 9 x Type 071 LPD and 3 x LHD
This would mean at any given time PLAN could deploy 6 LPD and 2 LHD, enough to transport at least one of its full strength marine bridges plus all their equipment
Add to that all their other transport ships like landing crafts and landing tank crafts etc. that would give China a huge amphibious assault capability
Also add to each fleet a CV and CVN and you have a two carrier fleet to total 6 carriers for whole PLAN with Liaoning as a training carrier to make the 7th carrier
Each CV (~65,000 ton) lifts 36 fighter aircraft and each CVN (~100,000 ton) lifts 48 fighter aircraft
So that’s 24 fighter aircraft for Liaoning, 36 for CV and 48 for CVN, total carrier fighter aircraft numbers are 276 or 23 x 12 carrier squadrons
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
I think you are right Jeff, I reckon the Chinese Type 726 LCAC can load 3 columns of 5 Humvee style vehicles to carry 15 in total
Make that four LCAC and a single Type 071 LPD can land 60 armoured Humvee style vehicles that's a whole lot
Obviously they wouldn't be carrying only Humvees but a assortment of armoured vehicles but either way the four LCAC of that size has a good lift capacity, i would say
15 Humvee style vehicles or
3 IFV or
1 tank or
A assortment of Jeeps and trucks
Now if PLAN decides to build like 9-12 of these Type 071 LPD they could land a huge mechanised formation on to a beech secure the bridgehead and provide a armoured thrust through enemy defences
4 x LCAC per LPD and 6 such LPD and you have 24 LCAC carrying more than 150-200 armoured vehicles hitting the beech at high speed
Not to mention 24 x Z8 helos carrying 25 marines each
I think you are right Jeff, I reckon the Chinese Type 726 LCAC can load 3 columns of 5 Humvee style vehicles to carry 15 in total
Make that four LCAC and a single Type 071 LPD can land 60 armoured Humvee style vehicles that's a whole lot
Obviously they wouldn't be carrying only Humvees but a assortment of armoured vehicles but either way the four LCAC of that size has a good lift capacity, i would say
15 Humvee style vehicles or
3 IFV or
1 tank or
A assortment of Jeeps and trucks
Now if PLAN decides to build like 9-12 of these Type 071 LPD they could land a huge mechanised formation on to a beech secure the bridgehead and provide a armoured thrust through enemy defences
4 x LCAC per LPD and 6 such LPD and you have 24 LCAC carrying more than 150-200 armoured vehicles hitting the beech at high speed
Not to mention 24 x Z8 helos carrying 25 marines each
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
Just found this picture shows 12 vehicles on USN LCAC,
Just found this picture shows 12 vehicles on USN LCAC,
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft
It occured to me there is another way to make a LPD hold 6 big LCACs. It is to use a lighter aboard ship (LASH) configuration instead of a standard wet well deck. This would allow 6 loaded LCACs to be stored in two layers in a 071 sized hull. I am not sure if it would be feasible to have a helicopter deck over the well without significantly increasing 071's freeboard.
However, AFAIK the chinese shipping industry and the chinese ship building industry has had no experience with LASH. It would be very surprising if they would strike out into this new ground using a warship as the first step.
It occured to me there is another way to make a LPD hold 6 big LCACs. It is to use a lighter aboard ship (LASH) configuration instead of a standard wet well deck. This would allow 6 loaded LCACs to be stored in two layers in a 071 sized hull. I am not sure if it would be feasible to have a helicopter deck over the well without significantly increasing 071's freeboard.
However, AFAIK the chinese shipping industry and the chinese ship building industry has had no experience with LASH. It would be very surprising if they would strike out into this new ground using a warship as the first step.
Last edited: