071 LPD thread

[Preux]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

IMO it's probably much easier and safer to send PLA troops across the Yalu River than reinforcing the DPRK by sea, IF that ever (and I hope not) happens.

Not reinforce. Attack. The PLA general staff, like all general staffs, probably has numerous contingency plans and attacking the DPRK would be one of them.

---------- Post added 06-05-2012 at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-04-2012 at 11:57 PM ----------

Don't forget Sun tzu and Clausewitz, having the capability to deploy a assault force like these over vast oceans would serve Chinese overseas interest in the future. After all, all wars aims to achieve a political goal. If have these ship allows China to do gun boat diplomacy, then it's a good asset to have. With China no longer isolated to Asia, who know what crisis China may themselves in. Though, it does goes against stated policy; having capability and don't use it is difference can't do anything about the situation.

.. what about Sun Tzu and Clausewitz? Have you even read Clausewitz? Which part of his works talks about sending an assault force over vast distances?

Anyway, this is a total non-sequitur. What I said was I do not foresee the eventuality of a 2000-men-per-wave landing and if you can, you'd be welcome to come up with a plausible scenario rather than vague hand-waving and appeal to authority.

The fact that a capability may be useful even without its active employment (BIG SURPRISE, anyone who has lived through the Cold War is aware of it) is a strawman, unless you want to quote me the paragraph where I say China shouldn't bother with that capability.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Except for a Taiwan contingency, I can't really imagine the PLA engaging in anything like this in the foreseeable future unless everything goes to pot.

Come to think about it, a Taiwan contingency means everything HAS gone to pot.

It is agreeable to imagine how they might do in such a landing against North Korea, however. I bet the PLA has extensive war plans on that, too.

They have created the capability so in the dire circumstances you define it could be used...and do so in the hopes that the capability itself will help it from having to be used.

Now, they may well use them in smaller, regional conflicts in the future as they secure their material supply chain to the PRC and run up against (particularly in the Africa area) tin horns who try and prevent or throw a wrench in those works...in which case it is highly doubtful they would use four at a time.

Or, they also will certainly be of good use, maybe up to two at a time, in a humanitarian assistance effort.

In the mean time they will train for all contingencies to be prepared for them all, including the major event we all pray does not happen.

 

[Preux]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I agree.

I mean, a look at the much mightier USMC's assets more or less clinches the likely operational usage of such an asset.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Except for a Taiwan contingency, I can't really imagine the PLA engaging in anything like this in the foreseeable future unless everything goes to pot.

Come to think about it, a Taiwan contingency means everything HAS gone to pot.

It is agreeable to imagine how they might do in such a landing against North Korea, however. I bet the PLA has extensive war plans on that, too.

so you know more than PLAN commanders, and China central goverment? PLAN has been training very hard for amphibious assualts for not years but decades, the entire reason Type 071 LPD came into being was because of its requirments, so maybe China is just making them for fun? or the vast array of Type 072 I, II , III, Type 074A, Type 074, Type 073III and Type 079 are just for show and really have not use

did UK goverment ever predict Falklands, they didnt, and were in the process of selling off their aircraft carriers to Austrialia, so my point is, be prepared is better than not being prepared at all, you dont know what other country might do, Philiphines over night grabs a island in South China Sea? what then

Take a look at the geography around China, its is sourrounded by islands, some pretty far out, China has huge interests from first to third island chains, and all countrys are running for sources, just look at how well France used Mistral during Libyan campagin, all countrys are running for LHDs and LPDs, what i was saying is max. capability, i.e. whats the max. Type 071 LPD can deploy under full battle conditions

in addition, as i said before Type 071 is a good central command and control station, can be used in disaster relief, evacuation, and many other non-military roles, for military roles far away, many times foreign hostages are taken, in Niger Delta or South America, a team of Marines needs to be sent in, they can do so from LPDs, sailing upstream in crafts to secure oil platforms and rigs, this is one reason why Royal Navy were training in the Malaysian Mangroves in 2007 using landing docks

 

[Igor]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Chinese marine corps have all the air cover they need, the airforce situated on the mainland. IT's not a special air force, it's only like, the third largest airforce on earth.

Furthermore there is the PLAN air arm for air support, it's not too great but it does have more aircraft than the entire ROC airforce.

They also have some brutal and accurate theater level ballistic missile forces behind them. Designate target in area of operations and watch it blow up, thats with air superiority on top so they can call in missile and air strike against a hypothetical target in the east asia region.

Plus, china does have ships too, to support it's little marine corps. A little navy, nothing much, it's only like the second largest navy on earth...that's all. But it'll do the job.

 

[Mysterre]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Chinese marine corps have all the air cover they need, the airforce situated on the mainland. IT's not a special air force, it's only like, the third largest airforce on earth.

Furthermore there is the PLAN air arm for air support, it's not too great but it does have more aircraft than the entire ROC airforce.

They also have some brutal and accurate theater level ballistic missile forces behind them. Designate target in area of operations and watch it blow up, thats with air superiority on top so they can call in missile and air strike against a hypothetical target in the east asia region.

Plus, china does have ships too, to support it's little marine corps. A little navy, nothing much, it's only like the second largest navy on earth...that's all. But it'll do the job.

You should know better than to keep saying largest this largest that. It doesn't exactly mean dick, but it certainly doesn't mean enough to be repeatedly boldtexted. A far more nuanced and realistic assessment will take into effect combat radius, basing, quality of aircraft and ships, logistical support, and most importantly the likelihood and nature of foreign intervention. China may or may not have the largest this or the second largest that, but quantity is one factor of many to consider, and by itself will certainly NOT "do the job".

 

[Franklin]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

The Type 071 LPD should work well in combination with the Type 081 LHD. The Type 071 lacks serious airlift capabilities so the Type 081 compensate for that. If the reports are to be believed the Type 081 is coming soon in 2014 or 2015.

 

[Igor]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

You should know better than to keep saying largest this largest that. It doesn't exactly mean dick, but it certainly doesn't mean enough to be repeatedly boldtexted. A far more nuanced and realistic assessment will take into effect combat radius, basing, quality of aircraft and ships, logistical support, and most importantly the likelihood and nature of foreign intervention. China may or may not have the largest this or the second largest that, but quantity is one factor of many to consider, and by itself will certainly NOT "do the job".

We both know such a military adventure in the immediate future would occur on china's periphery, i.e Taiwan, which is a small hop away, and the SCS are not on the other side of the pacific, they are right there, within range of mainland based weapons systems and China's most aged ships can operate as far out as the first island chain, with mainland air and radar support, it's modern vessels can operate much further out but won't need to, because adventurism will be limited to the region, allowing china to present overwhelming force multipliers and threats to anyone blundering into the crosshairs.

These LPD are just a first step to extending that range of operations beyond the immediate region. China's ability to project force on it's own periphery is not in question.

 

[Mysterre]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

These LPD are just a first step to extending that range of operations beyond the immediate region. China's ability to project force on it's own periphery is not in question.

Actually, it most definitely is in question. And yes, in question regarding its ability to project force a mere 120 miles from its coast. Am I saying the Chinese military could not pull off a successful invasion of Taiwan if it decided to attack tomorrow morning? Not necessarily, but it certainly is not as easy as all your bold text flippantly suggests. And if the US military intervenes directly, automatic failure. This may change by 2020 (or later), but for now that is the situation.

 

[Igor]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

If the US intervened, there would be a global war with unpredictable consequences. The US wouldn't intervene. All major US naval and air bases in the region can be struck by China and any US fleet blundering so close to the mainland and threatening key coastal cities would be like sitting ducks to Chinese airforce, submarines and anti-ship missile forces. It's not a situation the US would endure.