071 LPD thread

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

my bad, i have no idea why i said Zubr, China only has 2+2 and its a monster hovercraft around 500 tons , i meant air cushioned hovercraft for Type 071 thanks for the correction and the link Jeff

if each one of those LCAC can transport 100 marines then the numbers per wave are significantly higher

 

[franco-russe]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Zubrs (that's the large Russian built air cushion vessel right?).

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[luhai]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

so in a single wave 4 x Z8s can carry 100 marines and each Zubr carrys what 50 marines? so thats 200 marines in a single wave using air and cushion launches

4 waves from 4 LPDs simultanouslsy lands 800 marines, a serious punch into the enemys defences, a night time assualt would add further advantages, so we can see the advantage of LPDs and for that matter LHDs which could provide attack helos for cover for the Z8s carrying the troops

after securing the beech head then the Type 072s can land in the slow moving tranports etc all indications are that China is turning towards this kind of warfare

The Type 072s will be releasing ZBD series of IFV/AFVs or even Type 63A, China didn't develop these vehicles with high water traversing ability to land them on a secured beachhead.

 

[Preux]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Yes although i do agree that this tank swim is still a viable opition in terms of Taiwan scenario but any true blue water navy needs to establish 3D over the horizon amphibous assualt capability, this is why USN has V22 etc

conventional assualt are slow and you dont have the element of suprise, over the horzion allows for rapid attack, limits the enemy to counter attack and also allows u to out flank the enemy

at some point China will need to add this capability into its navy, and LPDs are not just limited to use for landing forces they also serve as very good command and control platforms

if China establishes 4 x Type 071 LPDs, this means around 3,200 marines, thats a pretty big naval brigade , i believe each LPD can take 4 x Z8s and 2 x Zubrs

so in a single wave 4 x Z8s can carry 100 marines and each Zubr carrys what 50 marines? so thats 200 marines in a single wave using air and cushion launches

4 waves from 4 LPDs simultanouslsy lands 800 marines, a serious punch into the enemys defences, a night time assualt would add further advantages, so we can see the advantage of LPDs and for that matter LHDs which could provide attack helos for cover for the Z8s carrying the troops

after securing the beech head then the Type 072s can land in the slow moving tranports etc all indications are that China is turning towards this kind of warfare

The LPD that can take a Zubr hadn't been built yet, but your point is otherwise sound.

---------- Post added at 04:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 AM ----------

The Type 072s will be releasing ZBD series of IFV/AFVs or even Type 63A, China didn't develop these vehicles with high water traversing ability to land them on a secured beachhead.

Be that as it may, they are still far slower than LCACs, nevermind helicopters.

 

[Totoro]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

lcac isnt really a platform to breach a defended beach, at least i dont think USN plans to use them for that. AAVs and smaller assault craft carrying infantry is what will land on beach first. lcacs come after at least some semblance of secured beach has been established.

lcacs may be fast but they are not as manouverable, they dont decelerate fast, they go in fairly straight lines over the ocean and are quite big. coupled with their pricetag and relatively small numbers (compared to AAVs) they are prime targets and fairly easy targets.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

i think the key point here is speed and timing, hovercraft and helicopters provide both, by land and air

hovercraft will not break through enemy defences but they will carry troops and equipment that will

before re-inforcements arrive getting as many troops on the beech is crucial, and also to stop a counter attack from forces deeper in land heli borne troops have to be dropped behind enemy lines

in modern era where anti-ship missiles are a threat to ships, over the horizon amphibious assault has become the preferred choice of attack

this is why more and more LHDs have big well decks for hovercrafts, take on board transport and attack helos, and have sophisticated command and control centres to co-ordinate synchronized air and sea landings

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Well, with 4 Type 071 (let's say) the PLAN could mount up to 4 of their LCAC's and two Z-8s from each. That would be 500 x 4 = 2000 troops per wave from the Type 071s themselves. Not a bad wave from these vessels. Now my guess is that there would be a similar if not larger number of Type 072 LST's with this force putting out IFVs and amphibious tanks perhaps if they coordinate the attacks and had the luxury of air dominance to do so.

That's the max with 4 LPDs like this...of course if four is all the PLAN has, it is not likely all four will engage in the same operation. They would need 6 to be sure to have 4 ready (IMHO) at any one time for a very major operation like that.

 

[Preux]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Except for a Taiwan contingency, I can't really imagine the PLA engaging in anything like this in the foreseeable future unless everything goes to pot.

Come to think about it, a Taiwan contingency means everything HAS gone to pot.

It is agreeable to imagine how they might do in such a landing against North Korea, however. I bet the PLA has extensive war plans on that, too.

 

[Equation]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Except for a Taiwan contingency, I can't really imagine the PLA engaging in anything like this in the foreseeable future unless everything goes to pot.

Come to think about it, a Taiwan contingency means everything HAS gone to pot.

It is agreeable to imagine how they might do in such a landing against North Korea, however. I bet the PLA has extensive war plans on that, too.

IMO it's probably much easier and safer to send PLA troops across the Yalu River than reinforcing the DPRK by sea, IF that ever (and I hope not) happens.

 

[luhai]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Except for a Taiwan contingency, I can't really imagine the PLA engaging in anything like this in the foreseeable future unless everything goes to pot.

Don't forget Sun tzu and Clausewitz, having the capability to deploy a assault force like these over vast oceans would serve Chinese overseas interest in the future. After all, all wars aims to achieve a political goal. If have these ship allows China to do gun boat diplomacy, then it's a good asset to have. With China no longer isolated to Asia, who know what crisis China may themselves in. Though, it does goes against stated policy; having capability and don't use it is difference can't do anything about the situation.