071 LPD thread

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

just had a thought

i know i said that it may well be the engines that is limiting the numbers of Type 071 LPDs, but this year 2 Qiandaohu class replenishment ships were launched, with no engine imports

the first 2 replenishment ships Qiandaohu and Weishanhu used engine which were imported but the next 2 have not, which means China is making SEMT Pielstick engines or a equivilent or under licence

so that leaves the question, why isnt there more LPDs under construction, very confusing

 

[MwRYum]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

so that leaves the question, why isnt there more LPDs under construction, very confusing

For one, the time lag in between the previous batches in the early 2000's and the boom we're witnessing in the last 3 years has been tied to the difficulties in China setting up production line for locally made engines and for them to make qualified products. Then there's the size of the PLAN Marines - it is small compare with the USMC. Next there's the shortage of vertical heavy lifting assets in the PLAN aviation, so until that's solved it'd leave the LPDs under-utilized in terms of heliborne assault department. In addition, LCAC is still yet reach serial production.

Lastly there's the sizable LST assets to contend with - China is still figuring out the new kind of amphibious assault possibilities brought forward by the LPD+helicopters+LCAC, their mainstay still using the WW2 (and post WW2, cold war Soviet) style LST+swimming tanks+speed boat combo. We're talking a major gear shift here, and there's no evidence indicate the PLAN made that wide a stride - they're doing it, but not there yet.

 

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

For one, the time lag in between the previous batches in the early 2000's and the boom we're witnessing in the last 3 years has been tied to the difficulties in China setting up production line for locally made engines and for them to make qualified products. Then there's the size of the PLAN Marines - it is small compare with the USMC. Next there's the shortage of vertical heavy lifting assets in the PLAN aviation, so until that's solved it'd leave the LPDs under-utilized in terms of heliborne assault department. In addition, LCAC is still yet reach serial production.

Lastly there's the sizable LST assets to contend with - China is still figuring out the new kind of amphibious assault possibilities brought forward by the LPD+helicopters+LCAC, their mainstay still using the WW2 (and post WW2, cold war Soviet) style LST+swimming tanks+speed boat combo. We're talking a major gear shift here, and there's no evidence indicate the PLAN made that wide a stride - they're doing it, but not there yet.

I think PLAN LST style of tank swim + speed boat is still an effective method in modern amphibious warfare.. Unlike the old time WWII, where the LST need to really breach and wait for tidal stream. The LST just need to drop anchor nearby in shallow or high tide and let amphibious vehicle do the job. PLAN has invested a significant amount of effort on amphibious asset.

 

[Igor]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I think PLAN LST style of tank swim + speed boat is still an effective method in modern amphibious warfare.

Obviously, this is still an important strategy (critical for a hypothetical invasion of Taiwan) and one that PLAN isn't going to abandon.

 

[hmmwv]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

The reason is simple, PLAN has plenty of high performance armored swimmers but lack heavy lifting helicopters and hovercrafts, so they have to adapt to this reality and utilize LSTs more, even 071 is used as swimmer truck sometimes. USMC is exactly the opposite.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I think PLAN LST style of tank swim + speed boat is still an effective method in modern amphibious warfare.. Unlike the old time WWII, where the LST need to really breach and wait for tidal stream. The LST just need to drop anchor nearby in shallow or high tide and let amphibious vehicle do the job. PLAN has invested a significant amount of effort on amphibious asset.

Yes although i do agree that this tank swim is still a viable opition in terms of Taiwan scenario but any true blue water navy needs to establish 3D over the horizon amphibous assualt capability, this is why USN has V22 etc

conventional assualt are slow and you dont have the element of suprise, over the horzion allows for rapid attack, limits the enemy to counter attack and also allows u to out flank the enemy

at some point China will need to add this capability into its navy, and LPDs are not just limited to use for landing forces they also serve as very good command and control platforms

if China establishes 4 x Type 071 LPDs, this means around 3,200 marines, thats a pretty big naval brigade , i believe each LPD can take 4 x Z8s and 2 x Zubrs

so in a single wave 4 x Z8s can carry 100 marines and each Zubr carrys what 50 marines? so thats 200 marines in a single wave using air and cushion launches

4 waves from 4 LPDs simultanouslsy lands 800 marines, a serious punch into the enemys defences, a night time assualt would add further advantages, so we can see the advantage of LPDs and for that matter LHDs which could provide attack helos for cover for the Z8s carrying the troops

after securing the beech head then the Type 072s can land in the slow moving tranports etc all indications are that China is turning towards this kind of warfare

 

[kroko]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

conventional assualt are slow and you dont have the element of suprise, over the horzion allows for rapid attack, limits the enemy to counter attack and also allows u to out flank the enemy.

In today´s world you cant get the element of surprise in such a large force deployment. Information spreads fast. China would never be able to get the element of surprise, specially if the US is providing intelligence (both from sattelite and ground).

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

if China establishes 4 x Type 071 LPDs, this means around 3,200 marines, thats a pretty big naval brigade , i believe each LPD can take 4 x Z8s and 2 x Zubrs

While I agree with most of your post...I do not believe the LPDs can carry any Zubrs (that's the large Russian built air cushion vessel right?). Instead they can carry up to four of the Chinese LCAC type vessel. Each of which can carry up to 100 troops.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[franco-russe]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

There is no way you can put a Zubr (Pr. 12322) measuring 57.3 x 25.6 m into an 071.

If PLAN had any Zubr's, they would carry 140 troops each, or 3 tanks, or 10 APC's.

 

[hmmwv]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Yeah the Zubr almost as wide as 071 itself.