056 class FFL/corvette

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joshuatree

Captain
At the end of the day, because there are no common standards to terms like frigate, I don't see what the fuss is about. Germany's planned F125 class will be called frigates despite the estimated tonnage of 7,200 tons, that's destroyer class with other navies.

On the other hand, German corvettes do not have executive officers. Does the 056 have one? If they do, then calling it a light frigate makes sense using that criteria. So ultimately, what matters more is how the name is used in context within that perspective navy, not what other navies are doing.
 
SampanViking

SampanViking

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In the good old days of course, your hull size was directly proportional to the size of guns you could carry.
Now, it is completely different as all ships of the same Navy can carry the same missiles and shoot at the same distance. It also means that a little ship can take on a big ship and both have the same chance of destroying the other, which is a distinct advantage for the little ship. The difference now being the "legs and stamina" which effects the kind of mission any particular class/hull size can undertake.

If I had to take stab at a definition, I would break it down to Ships able to undertake "Expeditionary Missions" and those that cannot. The 056 seems unlikely to be chosen for "Expeditionary Missions" and most likely to be tasked for littoral and near abroad light blue waters such as the East and South China Seas.
There is almost something reminiscent of the Liberty Ships in the way that these things are being pumped out (is it now 9 in the water within the last 12 months?) It is also probably fair to assume that they are viewed as relatively expendable as per the point made in the first paragraph as enjoying lethal parity with ships much bigger.

In that sense the 056 starts to look like an 022 with much longer legs.
 
L

luhai

Banned Idiot
delft said:
Long ago I saw translations of the names of Chinese naval ship classes of centuries ago ( was it in Needham's Science and Civilisation of China, the volume about maritime technology ? ) and IIRC those names were also descriptive, while already the Romans, beside using descriptive names like trireme, also used such names as liburne, that was called after the tribe whose standard boat provided the prototype. Aren't there any historical names that can be borrowed for use in naming new ship classes?
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What do you mean, I find the Chinese names for modern ships very descriptive. It not like the Chinese names are direct translation of Western names like Fu-Yi-Gai-Te for frigate. The names for Chinese sailing ships like 艨艟， 楼船， 福船 etc are not used because they are evolutionary dead ends after 1840 and it doesn't describe the ships of today anyway. While modern Western ship can kinda trace their lineage back to the Age of Sail.

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Below are Chinese names for Ships and it's literary translation, interesting topic. (Probaly deserve its own topic) Though not exactly related to 056.

Aircraft Carrier, 航空母舰， Aviation Mother Ship
Battleship, 战列舰， Battleline Ship
Battlecruiser, 战列巡洋舰， Battleline Patrol Ocean Ship
Cruiser， 巡洋舰, Patrol Ocean Ship
LHA/LHD etc. TBD, Since neither PRC or ROC has one*. Korea calls it 直昇機登陸平台艦 (Helicopter Landing Platform Ship), to Japan it's just another 護衛艦 (Escort Protect Ship)
LPD, 船坞登陆舰， Ship Dock Landing Ship
Destroyer, 驱逐舰， Chase Pursuit Ship
Frigate, 巡防艦 Patrol Defense Ship, PRC uses 護衛艦 (Escort Protect Ship) same as Corvette
Corvette, 護衛艦 Escort Protect Ship
Cutters， 巡逻艦， Patrol Ship (or sometimes 護衛艇 Escort Protect Boat depends on role and size) Most of the Chinese Coast Guard Ships are called by this name.
FAC, 导弹快艇, Missile Fast Boat
Patrol Boats/Gun Boat, 巡逻艇 Patrol Boat. (Type 62 Shanghai class are referred as such as well as Riverine boats operated by the PLA)
Submarine , 潜艇， Dive Boat. (No matter how big the sub is, it's still referred as a boat 艇 rather than Ship 舰. Despite the official cut off between Boat and Ship at 500t)

Edit
Both 直升机船坞登陆舰 (Helicopter Ship Dock Landing Ship) and 两栖攻击舰 (Amphibious Attack Ship) are used on BBS and magazines.
直升飞机 Helicopter by the way literately is Straight Up Flying Machine, how's that for descriptive..
 
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G

Gorthaur

New Member
luhai: Thank You very much. I was going to ask about differences in naming between western and Chinese navy's. You basically read my mind.

About 056, I noticed that some of the ships still have larger holes below helicopter deck than the others. It seems they are making modifications on the way rather than wait for the next batch. First on the bow and now on the stern section.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
Thank you luhai and ahadicow. There is a lot to be said in favor of these descriptive titles. It's just that I like the Western style of shorter names, although that sometimes leads to somewhat strange associations. Look for example at the historical US gunboat type with the name "gondola".
I cannot contribute further to this discussion, lacking knowledge, but if others want to go on it really would need a thread of its own.
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
luhai said:
What do you mean, I find the Chinese names for modern ships very descriptive. It not like the Chinese names are direct translation of Western names like Fu-Yi-Gai-Te for frigate. The names for Chinese sailing ships like 艨艟， 楼船， 福船 etc are not used because they are evolutionary dead ends after 1840 and it doesn't describe the ships of today anyway. While modern Western ship can kinda trace their lineage back to the Age of Sail.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



Below are Chinese names for Ships and it's literary translation, interesting topic. (Probaly deserve its own topic) Though not exactly related to 056.

Aircraft Carrier, 航空母舰， Aviation Mother Ship
Battleship, 战列舰， Battleline Ship
Battlecruiser, 战列巡洋舰， Battleline Patrol Ocean Ship
Cruiser， 巡洋舰, Patrol Ocean Ship
LHA/LHD etc. TBD, Since neither PRC or ROC has one*. Korea calls it 直昇機登陸平台艦 (Helicopter Landing Platform Ship), to Japan it's just another 護衛艦 (Escort Protect Ship)
LPD, 船坞登陆舰， Ship Dock Landing Ship
Destroyer, 驱逐舰， Chase Pursuit Ship
Frigate, 巡防艦 Patrol Defense Ship, PRC uses 護衛艦 (Escort Protect Ship) same as Corvette
Corvette, 護衛艦 Escort Protect Ship
Cutters， 巡逻艦， Patrol Ship (or sometimes 護衛艇 Escort Protect Boat depends on role and size) Most of the Chinese Coast Guard Ships are called by this name.
FAC, 导弹快艇, Missile Fast Boat
Patrol Boats/Gun Boat, 巡逻艇 Patrol Boat. (Type 62 Shanghai class are referred as such as well as Riverine boats operated by the PLA)
Submarine , 潜艇， Dive Boat. (No matter how big the sub is, it's still referred as a boat 艇 rather than Ship 舰. Despite the official cut off between Boat and Ship at 500t)

Edit
Both 直升机船坞登陆舰 (Helicopter Ship Dock Landing Ship) and 两栖攻击舰 (Amphibious Attack Ship) are used on BBS and magazines.
直升飞机 Helicopter by the way literately is Straight Up Flying Machine, how's that for descriptive..
Click to expand...

Very informative! Thanks luhai
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
joshuatree said:
Yeah, I'm confused by that too as I'm positive that pic is showing the port side garage so we should be staring at the back of the port launcher. The YouTube clip has a short segment of that same launcher from the opposite angle looking out the garage door. Maybe the door is obscured by the triple torpedo unit itself?
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You can see part of the door hinge in the upper-right corner of the picture.
i6t0LUY.jpg
 
P

PanAsian

Major
Engineer said:
You can see part of the door hinge in the upper-right corner of the picture.
i6t0LUY.jpg
Click to expand...

Even if there is no space inside the 'garage door' areas for additional storage I don't see that preventing UAVs from operating off of the 056.

If a helicopter can be operated off of just the landing pad, even if for 'one time' use making fuel supply unnecessary, then rotary wing and rocket launched UAVs can definitely do the same.

Given the 056's patrol role any UAVs based onboard will probably be reconnaissance types instead of attack types anyways so there is no need to support weapons. There are also Harpy-type one time use attack UAVs (more like manually guided loiter missiles).
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
PanAsian said:
Even if there is no space inside the 'garage door' areas for additional storage I don't see that preventing UAVs from operating off of the 056.

If a helicopter can be operated off of just the landing pad, even if for 'one time' use making fuel supply unnecessary, then rotary wing and rocket launched UAVs can definitely do the same.

Given the 056's patrol role any UAVs based onboard will probably be reconnaissance types instead of attack types anyways so there is no need to support weapons. There are also Harpy-type one time use attack UAVs (more like manually guided loiter missiles).
Click to expand...

Having a helo or a UAV on the pad isn't a question, that's definitely possible. But I believe the debate in the past was whether anything such as a UAV or additional weapons stores could have been housed in the garages. These pics from the commissioning more or less prove the garages are not large enough for anything but the triple torpedo tubes to swing out when being used.

Any 056 that can house a helo or anything else in a hangar will require a modified version.
 
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