056 class FFL/corvette

If the rumor is true, I would think the only significant change is the addition of TAS. These hulls look to be the same. So if there is a better hull sonar being installed, it better be the same size as I don't recall any pics of recent launches showing a bigger sonar dome on the hull.

While swapping out AShM missiles with ASM rockets is a possibility, I hate to see that as it means the 056 line will have different platforms for dedicated missions rather than multi-mission platforms. I rather they figure a way to add ASM rockets onto the existing config.

joshuatree said:

While swapping out AShM missiles with ASM rockets is a possibility, I hate to see that as it means the 056 line will different platforms for dedicated missions rather than multi-mission platforms. I rather they figure a way to add ASM rockets onto the existing config.

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The 056 as a "multimission" platform just means that it is barely even capable of either antiship or antisub warfare. As a dedicated ASW platform it would be a much more useful asset to the PLAN. IMO there should never have been a "056A" variant at all. This class should have had TAS and its slant launchers filled with CY-X missiles from the very beginning. 4 antisub missiles make a whole lot more difference to the PLAN than 4 antiship missiles. And as a littoral patrol vessel it is unlikely to ever be called upon to fire its antiship missiles in anger, but could easily be tasked to help sweep the littorals for enemy subs.

Mysterre said:

The 056 as a "multimission" platform just means that it is barely even capable of either antiship or antisub warfare. As a dedicated ASW platform it would be a much more useful asset to the PLAN. IMO there should never have been a "056A" variant at all. This class should have had TAS and its slant launchers filled with CY-X missiles from the very beginning. 4 antisub missiles make a whole lot more difference to the PLAN than 4 antiship missiles. And as a littoral patrol vessel it is unlikely to ever be called upon to fire its antiship missiles in anger, but could easily be tasked to help sweep the littorals for enemy subs.

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Instead of day one the 056 fielding 4 CY-X missiles, they really should have given the 056 a little more length, not a whole lot more, even an extra 4 meters would have been fine. Then, you could have been able to carry more than two twin-cell launchers, you could have had four. The ship could have fielded a mix of YJ-83 and CY-X. If there is an 056A in the works, that would be on my wish list.

If you're tasking to sweep the littorals for enemy subs, so as long as the current ships start coming with TAS, I don't see it hard swapping 4 AShM missiles with 4 ASM for that specific mission. But during a normal patrol, being multi-mission and carrying a mix would be ideal as you're not really expecting anything in particular but have something for whatever the issue arises. I suppose you can still do that now with 2 + 2 but that does make it field a very small quantity of each.

joshuatree said:

Instead of day one the 056 fielding 4 CY-X missiles, they really should have given the 056 a little more length, not a whole lot more, even an extra 4 meters would have been fine. Then, you could have been able to carry more than two twin-cell launchers, you could have had four. The ship could have fielded a mix of YJ-83 and CY-X. If there is an 056A in the works, that would be on my wish list.

If you're tasking to sweep the littorals for enemy subs, so as long as the current ships start coming with TAS, I don't see it hard swapping 4 AShM missiles with 4 ASM for that specific mission. But during a normal patrol, being multi-mission and carrying a mix would be ideal as you're not really expecting anything in particular but have something for whatever the issue arises. I suppose you can still do that now with 2 + 2 but that does make it field a very small quantity of each.

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IMO the only real usefulness of the 056's ASCM's is as part of a saturation attack in the context of a major conflict, which would in effect vastly water down its significance. I dont' see how the PLAN would allow the 056 to engage any enemy vessel on its own. However, as an subhunter armed with 4 standoff rocket-boosted torpedoes and long range TAS it is a fairly potent ASW platform for its size and could conceivably operate either alone or in packs. But yeah, two quadruple launchers should definitely have been there from the beginning, with only a small price to pay for it.

If to go by what the official newsreel and other things, 056 is a platform that's to replace the outdated sub-chasers and those short-range missile boats that're doing jobs handled by multi-role corvettes in most other modernly-equipped navies these days.

So the "baseline" (let's call it such for now) in the first batch, might probably configuration for those to replace the missile boats, which gives superior surface action capabilities; "anti-sub" variant rumored would be those to replace the sub-chasers...?

Hmmm, now that we mention how the PLAN could have made the 056 slightly longer and have more missiles or storage space... I'm sure they thought of that but most likely due to cost the 056 is what it is. Given this I am leaning once more towards the high end of my estimate of how many 056s (all variants) will be built - closer to 60 rather than 40. It'll probably be half/half sub hunters and 'multi-role' version.

MwRYum said:

If to go by what the official newsreel and other things, 056 is a platform that's to replace the outdated sub-chasers and those short-range missile boats that're doing jobs handled by multi-role corvettes in most other modernly-equipped navies these days.

So the "baseline" (let's call it such for now) in the first batch, might probably configuration for those to replace the missile boats, which gives superior surface action capabilities; "anti-sub" variant rumored would be those to replace the sub-chasers...?

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The PLAN has a lot of small corvette sized vessels to do both functions you allude to that need replacing. My guess is that the Type 056, wityhout a special variant will be able to replace both..

The Type 056 has been designed by the PLAN to do what they want and feel is most important. They have, somewhere a list of specifications that they started with when designing these vessels and they clearly feel that the vessels are meeting those requirements to a tee, or they would not be building them in such a serial fashion.

Perhaps there will be two variants. IMHO, it is more likely that the one variant can carry the anti-sub missiles when tasked to do so, and in effect have the ASW missiles be part of their ASW mission pack, and the ASMs be a part of their anti-surface mission pack.

This would not surprise me at all...and if so, they have already got a better ASuW mission pack and punch than the LCS does...and all because the US does not, for whatever reason, even as a stop gap, want to put eight Harpoon missiles on them. Rediculous if you ask me...and making the LCS ASuW mission pack peretty much toothless against other corvettes they may meet in the littorals who have much longer ranged missiles than the current LCS ASuW Mission Pack will carry.

Jeff Head said:

The PLAN has a lot of small corvette sized vessels to do both functions you allude to that need replacing. My guess is that the Type 056, wityhout a special variant will be able to replace both..

The Type 056 has been designed by the PLAN to do what they want and feel is most important. They have, somewhere a list of specifications that they started with when designing these vessels and they clearly feel that the vessels are meeting those requirements to a tee, or they would not be building them in such a serial fashion.

Perhaps there will be two variants. IMHO, it is more likely that the one variant can carry the anti-sub missiles when tasked to do so, and in effect have the ASW missiles be part of their ASW mission pack, and the ASMs be a part of their anti-surface mission pack.

This would not surprise me at all...and if so, they have already got a better ASuW mission pack and punch than the LCS does...and all because the US does not, for whatever reason, even as a stop gap, want to put eight Harpoon missiles on them. Rediculous if you ask me...and making the LCS ASuW mission pack peretty much toothless against other corvettes they may meet in the littorals who have much longer ranged missiles than the current LCS ASuW Mission Pack will carry.

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Please try to remember that the USN have other assets available to fill those roles that LCS can't fulfill, thus as a whole system it'd be of lesser issue; whereas PLAN are still fielding new platform to fulfill roles and mission that they previously can't undertake, or at least in lesser efficiency and effectiveness.

What one could try to do with the current design, in way of adding missiles, is add C705 launchers (or something in its class). It's a new missile, should be pretty capable, its range and warhead is pretty much fit for littoral low intensity warfare. (its something LCS should have, really, instead of its planned griffin micromissiles)

Best of all, its footprint on the deck would not be huge. Two twin launchers could fit in a single line, perpendicular to the ship, meaning they would be set along the width of the deck in a pyramid arrangement, as seen on some other ships. exhausts would face the deck edges and front of the canisters would face each other but there would be enough room between them for them to shoot over each other.

Due to the relative small dimensions of c705 i do believe such platform could fit either between the command bridge and the gun, in the front of the ship (with little to no redesign needed), or, with some redesign and rearangement of various subsystems around that part of the ship - just behind the smokestack, in the back.

Then, of course, reserve the current c803 launcher space exclusively for rocket assisted torpedos.

MwRYum said:

Please try to remember that the USN have other assets available to fill those roles that LCS can't fulfill.

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What's to remember?

The US had a very good Frigate design, but wanted something smaller, more agile, and that drew less water to act as a COMBAT vessel in the littorals. To go into those waters and take care of three different types of business (three different roles IT was ttasked for) without having to risk one of the other assets you speak of (like a Burke) in doing so.

So, if you want ASW work done, you outfit it with an ASW pack, which I believe will workout just fine. If you want anti-mine work done, you outfit it with its mine warfare pack and I believe that will work fine too.

But in the surface warefare role, the vessel is sorely lacking. Even with the original plan for the NLOS missiles, their range was less than what other corvettes operating in those waters would have...and now, since that program was dropped, they are placing the rediculous Griffin missile package on, which has a range of less than ten miles, and indicating it will be good for "swarming" small craft...like Iranian speed boats.

Oh really? I say they can use the 57mm rapid fire main gun and the two Bushmaster 25mm or 30mm, syncronized automated cannons for that, and the CIWS...but what happens when you face two or three 1,200 ton corvettes, each carrying four missiles that range in excess of fifty miles? I'll tell you what happens...deep kaka!

These vessels (the LCS) should, as a part of their standard package, carry at least one quad cannister (if not two) of the latest Harpoon missiles...at least until a new missile is available that can be launched from an MK-41 (which both variants are capable of installing) or special PVLS implacements.

Otherwise they are going to be going to some potentially wild parties and they will not have the entrance fee required to attend.

If you have to send a Burke with them to defend them everytime you face such a threat...then you have defeated a major reason for building them. And the solution I am speaking of is realtively straight forward. The Harpoon cannisters bolt to the deck and do not penetrate the main deck. They simply need to be wired into fire control and their sensors...and they may require upgrades to the fire control and sensors. But those are cheap compared to facing off against much smaller, and yet much better armed adversaries.