I rather coordinate a salvo with PLARF DF-26 from inland and have the 055 carry more YJ-12 and YJ-18 for saturation attack on a USN CSG. If we are talking about a strike on the Second Island Chain, then ~maybe~ 055s can carry a few AShBMs. But in that scenario, I rather 055s carry more quadpacked 5-5-5s and accompany a PLAN CSG to do the conventional strike.
055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread
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how does the PLAN CSG's planes avoid or fight past a larger hostile CAP backed by naval SAMs to get within firing range?
how is it advantageous to get within YJ-12/18 range which is still shorter range than ASBM range?
how do you pack more YJ-12/18 than ASBM if both take up a single UVLS?
How many AShBM would you need instead to accomplish each of the same object? Are you saying that AShBM is a wunderwaffe that does not need to be coordinated with conventional strikes to maximize saturation bandwidth in a strike? That instead of a max bandwidth 400 missile strikes of different variety, that you'll send just all brigades of DF-26s (48 launchers IIRC) or whatever you can muster with a few AShBM on the 055s to tackle all the above scenarios?
It's not an either/or proposition. It's not weather you carry AShBM. It is who is carrying it, how many, and when.
when did I say that? the simple question is why wouldn't 055s carry ASBMs to extend the area that it can influence through fires, and instead solely carry an equally sized arsenal of shorter ranged munitions?
its not merely about generating strike bandwidth. its about generating strike bandwidth against an actively resisting opponent that hits back and can attack you before your strike assets have a chance to fire. the longer the range of your strike asset, the lower the probability that such an attempted attack succeeds. in addition, ASBM can overfly land in a way standard ASM cannot due to a combination of diplomatic considerations, guidance and range. This means they can strike from unexpected angles i.e. hitting enemy ships in the Indian Ocean from Tibet or Yunnan. this is a qualitatively new capability that was not present before.
yes, not every VLS should be filled with an ASBM, because you'll also need to handle both low and high flying air assets, small/fast/light ships, forward deployed ships within or near standard ASM range, enemy ships at dock, etc. so you still need to carry standard ASM and SAMs. But I'd say that it's still wise to dedicate a significant portion of the VLS farm to ASBM as long as the primary threat is a far away enemy CBG.
Honestly plan can absolutely do with an arsenal ship aiming for over 200 uvls with a significant portion dedicated to ASBM, boost glide or boost waveride hypersonics. Obviously as well as self defence systems with long and medium ranged SAMs for self defence and asat and BMD SAMs too. Put two hhq-10 and two 1130s as ciws. Perfect complement to fleets.
All of these already exist for 055. Triple 5 missile quadpakced in service or not there are plenty of med range options.
055 is not an arsenal ship or really even a cruiser. It's primarily an air defence ship with asw and asuw capabilities that exceed all others in plan but an arsenal ship doesn't need all those sensors or asw wing. The entire role of such a platform is to take full advantage of plan's pretty much world leading CEC. There is quite simply no way China's CEC is not absolutely world leading. Telecomm and comms tech beyond Japan, Sweden, and USA. Like come on this is China's greatest tech strength field. Given the tech base of what we know is used onboard even 052D, there absolutely is a lot to be exploited with an arsenal ship.
055 "only" has 114 vls. It could easily have accommodated more but at the expense of sensors, electronic equipment, and power generation.
An arsenal ship doesn't even need the same crew complement. It doesn't need expensive sensors, just CEC equipment and ordinance. Plan would be stupid not to prioritise this. The only real question is just how big to make it. How many missiles will it fire off before sunk or effectively attacked. How far to push that lever forward given subsurface threat capabilities and the point of diminishing returns, the risk calculus of losing ordinance not fired off before ship is attacked or sunk etc.
I reckon 200 vls is a minimum.
All of these already exist for 055. Triple 5 missile quadpakced in service or not there are plenty of med range options.
055 is not an arsenal ship or really even a cruiser. It's primarily an air defence ship with asw and asuw capabilities that exceed all others in plan but an arsenal ship doesn't need all those sensors or asw wing. The entire role of such a platform is to take full advantage of plan's pretty much world leading CEC. There is quite simply no way China's CEC is not absolutely world leading. Telecomm and comms tech beyond Japan, Sweden, and USA. Like come on this is China's greatest tech strength field. Given the tech base of what we know is used onboard even 052D, there absolutely is a lot to be exploited with an arsenal ship.
055 "only" has 114 vls. It could easily have accommodated more but at the expense of sensors, electronic equipment, and power generation.
An arsenal ship doesn't even need the same crew complement. It doesn't need expensive sensors, just CEC equipment and ordinance. Plan would be stupid not to prioritise this. The only real question is just how big to make it. How many missiles will it fire off before sunk or effectively attacked. How far to push that lever forward given subsurface threat capabilities and the point of diminishing returns, the risk calculus of losing ordinance not fired off before ship is attacked or sunk etc.
I reckon 200 vls is a minimum.
CEC = Datalink between ships that are line of sight between the antenna of each other. The immediate transfer of data is fast enough between the ships that it can be used to track airborne targets for an air defense function enabling an air defense umbrella encompassing all the ships that are interconnected.
For antiship its a different form of networking, one that encompasses communicating with satellites and airborne assets, e.g. AEW, MPA, helo, MALE and HALE drones. For ASuW purposes you need to capture data from beyond the horizon. Actually for ASuW, the sensor investment isn't that high. With PLAN warships its usually in the form of the Type 366 antiship targeting system that's a kissing cousin to the Mineral-M systems used by Russians and the Ukrainians (Moskva is said to have been targeted by the Mineral-U). This system physically appears as a dome over on top of the bridge of many ships, as in the Sovremenny class, the Type 054A, 051C, 052B, 052C, and 052D, and as the main radar for Russian corvettes, such as the Tarantul class. The Mineral system was first introduced to the PLAN with the Sovremenny class, and since imitation is the best form of flattery, the system is copied as the Type 366 for domestic PLAN warships.
It consists of.
An active X-band radar component that rotates. This has a range of up to 250km. The difference beween the PLAN Type 366 over the Soviet era Mineral is the addition of the ability to detect low flying objects for the PLAN radar, giving it an air defense layer.
A passive radar component. The Mineral or Type 366 radar consists of two antennas mated back to back. One antenna is for the active radar, the other is for the passive radar or ESM. The second antenna deals with a wider range of wavelengths from L to X-band, which essentially detects the radio emissions of other ships, geolocates them for antiship targeting.
Both active and passive radar systems use a method called Atmospheric Ducting, in which radio waves are reflected by thermal layers in the atmosphere, a phenomenon as it turns out, conveniently strong in the Western Pacific.
A datalink component. This takes the shape of either a small globe shaped dome, or a small R2D2 shaped dome. This datalink is usually found near the middle and around the funnels of the ship. This datalink takes data from airborne sources. For example, there are two port and starboard of the aft mast near the 054A's funnel, two underneath the Type 517 VHF arrays on the 052C and 052D.
Whereas the other two components are fairly large, it is the datalink that is conveniently small and only requires a low investment. Ever wonder how a Type 056 can target a ship over the horizon without a long range antiship targeting radar with those 200km+ over the horizon YJ-83s? The ship has two domes in the rear deck, the larger one is a SATCOM, and the smaller one has to be a Type 366 datalink.
While the Type 366 is probably the first system in the PLAN in place for OTH ASuW targeting, there is no doubt that a more sophisticated system involving satellites are taking its place, but for the sake of legacy and redundancy, the Type 366 remains. At least, up to a point, since its gone with both the 055 and 056. What remains still is the last portion, the datalink, because of the small investment this requires. In the Type 055, I believe there is a small dome right on top of the bridge that best fits the description and size of the 366-2 datalink, usually shielded from view by the bar shaped arrays on top.
The OTH networking for ASuW targeting should be transferred to the much more modern SATCOMs and the satellite systems they communicate with. For passive targeting, it should be transferred to the ESM systems, namely the kebob like ESM mast on top of the integrated mast, and the two R2D2 shaped domes near the base of the integrated mast. Like the datalink, the ESM systems are a small investment in terms of volume and weight.
With the Type 366 system no more on the 055, with only the datalink, its a question if the active OTH radar function is ever included into the AESA panels. If it does, its likely on the small X-band AESAs on the integrated mast and not the giant AESA arrays on the superstructure which is for air defense.
To put it in another way, the 052C/D and even the 054A may have a better antiship detection suite over the 055 thanks to the legacy systems that are not fully replaced on the 055. The SATCOMs on the older ships are the same as on the 055, and the newest SATCOMs are all retrofitted on all ships equally, so satellite access for antiship targeting on all ships are equal. All have the same Type 366-2 datalink, so access to aerial sources are the same and equal. Where the 055 might have an advantage, is that it has a newer ESM mast which leaves the possibility that its passive detection and locating systems might be superior over the legacy systems. The newer ESM mast itself is not a high investment either in both room and weight; I can see it being used as part of a future frigate.
Even in the case that the Type 055 lacks the active OTH targeting accorded by the legacy Type 366 system, all the 055 needs to do is to network with a ship that has it, such as the escorting 052D, 052C or 054A. So in the end, the 055 can access as much targeting data for antiship as much as any other PLAN ship.
This also highlights the importance I see of small but high tech capability ships that can be used on the outskirts of the battlegroup, both to expand the air defense umbrella by CEC and to further the over the horizon ship location network. This is why I think a new small destroyer or frigate is important as a force multiplier for the 055.
An Arsenal ship, unless it is being used to support an air defense role, won't need CEC. But then again, CEC arrays is another small and cheap investment on its own, won't cost the ship much, and won't weigh the ship down, being physically a set of four flat fixed faces which you need to embed or hang on a mast. Its not a huge penalty to a ship to add it so let's just add it anyway. For anti shipping, the datalink to talk to aircraft and drones is a small investment; the ESM mast for passive OTH location is another low investment. If you want to bother using the entire Type 366 radar system on the arsenal ship, it won't be a huge investment either, since the Mineral is used as primary radar on small Russian corvettes. Then add the requisite SATCOMs, again, not very high investment items either.
Having a more helicopter embarking capacity doesn't make a ship the best ASW ship. A proper ASW ship is built specifically for the job with lots of hull & machinery quieting (though nowhere near the quieting used on submarines but still substantial) techniques involved, propeller noise & bubbles control, wake dissipation features etc.
The 055 is a top of the line AAW warship that PLAN will never risk with ASW.
If two navies go to war: one side has good submarines while the other side has good ASW - ships, then who wins?
You are talking about using the ship's sonar to locate the sub, but nowadays navy use helicopters flying far out to locate subs, the ASW ships are just carriers, they themselves don't have to be that specifically built.
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