055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Michaelsinodef]

Well, again, agreed vis-a-vis simplicity, but I don't mind at least approaching the question in its current form.

If I'm assuming my task is to sink the enemy CSG, I'd need a lot more information about where it is, how close it is to the PRC coast, the escort force, what other naval assets are in theater on both my and the PLAN side, what kind of anti-shipping threat we're looking at (if the answer is "unattrited," well I'm going to turn tail and run, because 500nm is WAY too close if it's the East China Sea, or it's literally just a loss from the start if it's in the South China Sea. I cannot emphasize enough, you do *not* survive in the SCS while only 500nm off the mainland cost.

I'd be curious who has opcon over those B-52s and F-22/35s, and how they'd integrate into my force. Are there any other assets at my disposal, or is that all? Additionally, where are those B-52s and F-22/35s coming from? Am I able to provide tasking to them at will, or must I wait for another force to hand over opcon of the aircraft as they enter my AOR?

Specificity is the beating heart of useful analysis.

I think he meant that the PLAN's CSG was located around 500 nm from China's coast.

 

[tphuang]

Oh, yeah I think you're right. Sorry lol, I've been up and writing for a few days.

That's what I meant, but I think you answered it pretty well. Without more details, it's very hard to scope these things out. And I am definitely not capable of getting into details.

And thanks for clarifying scs vs ecs. I didn't think about things that way, but it makes a lot of sense that scs would be easier for china to defend given the various island bases. This is also probably a better discussion to be had on another thread.

 

[AndrewS]

Well, you're correct about making this too simplistic, that's for sure haha. There are absolutely situations in which the USN would - as an organization - be willing to trade a VA for a Rehnai; however, it wouldn't just be done arbitrarily. VAs are expensive, full of highly trained (and therefore also expensive) crew, and are - more often than not - able to perform both anti shipping as well as land attack missions with their Mk45s. This isn't something that anyone wants to throw away if it can be helped. Thus, while yes - if an SSN crew were sufficiently motivated to do so, and COMSUBPAC agreed that the matter is of enough significance to offset the costs, there could be that sort of "suicide bomb" attack. However, the far more likely case in 99% of circumstances is that the SSN crew will know that if they fire, they die - and not wanting to die, they just won't suicidally attack a target like that.

If a Type-055 costs $950 Million, then you could buy 3 of them for the cost of a single Virginia.
It would have to be really important to decide a Virginia is worth trading for a Type-055.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

If a Type-055 costs $950 Million, then you could buy 3 of them for the cost of a single Virginia.
It would have to be really important to decide a Virginia is worth trading for a Type-055.

Problem is it doesn't matter how cost effective the 055 is, it needs to actually be build and fielded in numbers.

Which just, plainly takes time to do.

 

[tphuang]

If a Type-055 costs $950 Million, then you could buy 3 of them for the cost of a single Virginia.
It would have to be really important to decide a Virginia is worth trading for a Type-055.

Once you get to the battlefield, it really doesn't matter how much something costs. It really is about where the threat is coming from and what you have to use to neutralize it. It takes decades to build a fleet which can be decimated in a high intensity warfare in an afternoon. Just think about all the years that it takes to train the crew members to competently operate a warship. For example, cv16 joined service in 2012, but plan only believed they achieved full combat capabilities last year.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Not to mention, this is on top of the triple digit HHQ-9Bs on board, which are of a similar performance class to SM-6.

HHQ-9 in triple digits? Has the PLAN managed to quad-pack the HHQ-9 missiles into their UVLS already?

If 5-5-5 ever pops up, I think the cardiologists here in the DC area are gonna have their hands full.

I really do wonder about the progress of the rumored 5-5-5 missile so far... Any yet?

Lol dude it scares the bejeezus out of us. YJ-18s alone are enough of a threat, but now AShBMs have to get factored in too!

Honestly, I still see a lot of people on Quora, in particular those who are current/former US military and/or US Navy personnel, who actually dismisses the threat of the naval-based YJ-18 and YJ-21 AShMs, plus the land-based hypersonic DF-17, ballistic DF-21 and DF-26 AShMs. They also presented that the US Navy has various methods, and is very, very confident of swapping all of them out of the sky with ease.

Or at least, that's what I can infer from these Quorans.

 

[AndrewS]

Once you get to the battlefield, it really doesn't matter how much something costs. It really is about where the threat is coming from and what you have to use to neutralize it. It takes decades to build a fleet which can be decimated in a high intensity warfare in an afternoon. Just think about all the years that it takes to train the crew members to competently operate a warship. For example, cv16 joined service in 2012, but plan only believed they achieved full combat capabilities last year.

True, once you get on the battlefield. But I rate the chances of this happening as 10-20%

So most likely it won't happen, but there is a chance. Plus the consequences would be catastrophic.

So I do think what matters more is managing the US-China arms race to prevent a clash happening in the future. This is far more important than thinking through an actual clash today. From that perspective, the costs are directly relevant to an arms race, and the long-term calculations that China and the US are operating upon.

I think the Chinese do have an very astute estimation of the current and future balance of economic/military power, whereas the US is generally in a state of denial or just plainly delusional.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

HHQ-9 in triple digits? Have the PLAN managed to quad-pack the HHQ-9 missiles into their UVLS already?

Yea I'm curious about this as well, although I do believe from the other commentators here that this is something we expect, so only a matter of when.

I really do wonder about the progress of the rumored 5-5-5 missile so far... Any yet?

What is exactly the 5-5-5 arrangement, believe I saw it before but forgot.

Honestly, I still see a lot of people on Quora, in particular those who are current/former US military and/or US Navy personnel, who actually dismisses the threat of the naval-based YJ-18 and YJ-21 AShMs, plus the land-based hypersonic DF-17, ballistic DF-21 and DF-26 AShMs. They also presented that the US Navy has various methods, and is very, very confident of swapping all of them out of the sky with ease.

Or at least, that's what I can infer from these Quorans.

Why are you taking Quora that seriously lol?

I mean yes, there are some based and good answers there, but there's likewise lots of garbage as well.

 

[clockwork]

Oh, yeah I think you're right. Sorry lol, I've been up and writing for a few days.

Not sure if you're exaggerating about ur sleep habits lol, but staying up literally several days straight is extremely bad, I'm not even sure how you're able to do that on a regular basis/are still alive and well if so tbh

 

[zavve]

What is exactly the 5-5-5 arrangement, believe I saw it before but forgot

The 3-5 or 555 means 50km range, Mach 5, and 50g. It's also supposedly quad-packed in UVLS like the ESSM In the Mk.41