055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[steve_rolfe]

Regarding the Type 055.......dream or reality?

Well i think such a ship will appear in the not too distant future.

Reasons.........well there has been much speculation on this vessel, on the home Chinese speaking military forums, and mostly from military enthusiasts who have given us news and images of current PLAN warships, such as the Type 052D Destroyer.

As a Westerner, its hard for us to get involved in the latest news and discussions on Chinese military programs, due to the restrictions placed on outsiders of China being able to subscribe to these sites.
The only way to know what is going on is by being able to translate the headings of these topics, to get snippets of info, or from Chinese military enthusiasts who also post on Western Chinese military forums.

From the info iv'e managed to gain so far apart from what we already know....iv'e read that the design of the type 055 has now been completed.

Though not in any way a confirmation of type 055 existence.........one has to remember that this vessels forthcoming production has been shown on Chinese TV news items, though what the vessel will look like is still not known even to the Chinese public.

Another observation made is that, though very tenious, if you look at the numbering of current Chinese vessels, the number of class 055 has not been allocated to anything else of new recently, has it?

We've had 051, 052, 053, 054 and 056, but not 055.............i know 055 was allocated to an old Chinese Destroyer project decades ago, but if this class number was not reserved for a future design.........then why wasn't the type 056 Corvette called the 055 Corvette.

Just some titbits of info, for food of thought!

 

[drunkmunky]

I think it's a dream. The development of the type 52's has been pretty fast and I believe that they are very capable.

I don't believe China really needs Cruiser size destroyers in the next 4-5 years.

Carrier and & LHD battle groups as well as Amphibious attack groups make sense with the 56, 54, and 52 surface combatants. If anything we need more smaller boats for ASW warfare & more LHD & Carriers for air dominance.

I think, if we are really waiting to see new developments on a type 55, keep an eye on 892 and 893. If all of a sudden we see new weapons systems, then I could lean towards a new destroyer class. Even then, I would consider that those new weapons be retrofits for the 51c's and maybe the 52c.

 

[montyp165]

I think it's a dream. The development of the type 52's has been pretty fast and I believe that they are very capable.

I don't believe China really needs Cruiser size destroyers in the next 4-5 years.

Carrier and & LHD battle groups as well as Amphibious attack groups make sense with the 56, 54, and 52 surface combatants. If anything we need more smaller boats for ASW warfare & more LHD & Carriers for air dominance.

I think, if we are really waiting to see new developments on a type 55, keep an eye on 892 and 893. If all of a sudden we see new weapons systems, then I could lean towards a new destroyer class. Even then, I would consider that those new weapons be retrofits for the 51c's and maybe the 52c.

The general trend for modern combatant ships is continual growth of size due to increasing machinery/equipment requirements, so having the 055s come on line in 5 years time is absolutely necessary for future force development.

 

[MwRYum]

As a Westerner, its hard for us to get involved in the latest news and discussions on Chinese military programs, due to the restrictions placed on outsiders of China being able to subscribe to these sites.
The only way to know what is going on is by being able to translate the headings of these topics, to get snippets of info, or from Chinese military enthusiasts who also post on Western Chinese military forums.

From the info iv'e managed to gain so far apart from what we already know....iv'e read that the design of the type 055 has now been completed.

Though not in any way a confirmation of type 055 existence.........one has to remember that this vessels forthcoming production has been shown on Chinese TV news items, though what the vessel will look like is still not known even to the Chinese public.

Another observation made is that, though very tenious, if you look at the numbering of current Chinese vessels, the number of class 055 has not been allocated to anything else of new recently, has it?

We've had 051, 052, 053, 054 and 056, but not 055.............i know 055 was allocated to an old Chinese Destroyer project decades ago, but if this class number was not reserved for a future design.........then why wasn't the type 056 Corvette called the 055 Corvette.

Just some titbits of info, for food of thought!

The primary barrier to mainland China's forums is language, then it's the difficulty to wade through neck-deep political crap (most of those forums have a strong leftist flavour, non-Chinese can feel "uncomfortable" at the least of it), misleading topic headers and linguistic cryptography the mainland Chinese seems fond to use, just to sift out that 1% useful stuff.

I think it's a dream. The development of the type 52's has been pretty fast and I believe that they are very capable.

I don't believe China really needs Cruiser size destroyers in the next 4-5 years.

Carrier and & LHD battle groups as well as Amphibious attack groups make sense with the 56, 54, and 52 surface combatants. If anything we need more smaller boats for ASW warfare & more LHD & Carriers for air dominance.

I think, if we are really waiting to see new developments on a type 55, keep an eye on 892 and 893. If all of a sudden we see new weapons systems, then I could lean towards a new destroyer class. Even then, I would consider that those new weapons be retrofits for the 51c's and maybe the 52c.

I won't be writing it off as dream but rather a design-in-progress, first of all PLAN practice baby-step approach for their ship projects, so what we see in the 052D design, is probably for them to reach the goal of truly multi-role, that is with beyond horizon offensive capability that can bring to bear against non-naval targets - if the new VLS on 052D is indeed the successful materialization of the GJB5860-2006 specification, then it'll have potential to pack LACM. It also might be for the first time the modern Chinese navy's surface combatant packing offensive capability that reach beyond 1000km.

But here's the problem: 052D only has 64 VLS cells, when 8 reserved for anti-ship missiles that leaves 56 cells, to pack any LACM will eat into the air defence fire power, although the new VLS should've potential to receive a ESSM-like package, Chinese haven't develop an ESSM equivalent.

Thus, in order to pack significant multi-role firepower it has to be bigger then the current 052D hull - it's obvious that in 052D, the design is just too small now. The only recourse is a new design that has 9000t displacement or even 10000t, something like the Flight IIA or even Flight III of the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.

So, the problem that the PLAN faces is that they never have something that potent, so the 052D will be a lead-in design before they push forward to the 055(?) class DDG. That said, it's a logical step for PLAN to move towards the 055(?) DDG, but by their character it won't be done in one giant leap.

 

[Blitzo]

I think it's a dream. The development of the type 52's has been pretty fast and I believe that they are very capable.

I don't believe China really needs Cruiser size destroyers in the next 4-5 years.

Carrier and & LHD battle groups as well as Amphibious attack groups make sense with the 56, 54, and 52 surface combatants. If anything we need more smaller boats for ASW warfare & more LHD & Carriers for air dominance.

Unlike most navies in the world, china faces the world's most capable navy and its allies as its potential competitors and enemy.
ASW definitely needs a boost, but that will come through additional helicopters, MPAs, and developing more capable systems for warship hulls (as well as developing better submarines) -- not building dedicated ships per se. And while carriers provide organic air power to a fleet, that does not supersede the benefits which large, 100+ VLS totin' warship with significant future upgradability brings.

Against an enemy with very strong air power and anti shipping, a cruiser is a must if you want a near peer or even survivable CVBG.

I think, if we are really waiting to see new developments on a type 55, keep an eye on 892 and 893. If all of a sudden we see new weapons systems, then I could lean towards a new destroyer class. Even then, I would consider that those new weapons be retrofits for the 51c's and maybe the 52c.

Actually there's a very good chance 055 will use the same radar and VLS as 052D, so the lack of new equipment on the test ships aren't necessarily indicative of anything.

 

[MwRYum]

Actually there's a very good chance 055 will use the same radar and VLS as 052D, so the lack of new equipment on the test ships aren't necessarily indicative of anything.

Thus it's more likely the 052D will serve as a "lead-in" design, then the 055(?) will carry much of the same suite, but pack more VLS modules.

 

[Blitzo]

Thus it's more likely the 052D will serve as a "lead-in" design, then the 055(?) will carry much of the same suite, but pack more VLS modules.

I don't absolutely disagree with you, but the world "lead in" suggests an idea of "prototype" or "limited production" or "testbed" for the ship in question, whereas it looks like there's going to be many 052Ds up on the horizon.

That especially plays true if there is a smaller run of 055s than 052Ds (keeping in mind both may end up being produced simultaneously, and that 055 will be a dfiferent type of warship to 052D).


In that sense, 052D is no more a "lead in" design for 055 than ticonderoga was for burke. But semantics aside, I agree with you. 055 will likely use many mature technologies from 052D (and chances are the future frigate will too). A final consolidation onto one type of VLS will benefit the fleet. IF the APAR is scalable as well, then even better -- you'll have cruisers, destroyers and frigates all hauling different sized AESAs with a common production line. And AESAs can be scaled simply by adding more T/R modules too, meaning it's definitely not unrealistic.

 

[SinoSoldier]

¦^��: Type 055 DDG - PLAN's Next Generation Destroyer Thread

From our friend Henri Kenhmann, a reveal of what is rumored to be the YJ-18A and HHQ-9B.

 

[i.e.]

I don't absolutely disagree with you, but the world "lead in" suggests an idea of "prototype" or "limited production" or "testbed" for the ship in question, whereas it looks like there's going to be many 052Ds up on the horizon.

That especially plays true if there is a smaller run of 055s than 052Ds (keeping in mind both may end up being produced simultaneously, and that 055 will be a dfiferent type of warship to 052D).


In that sense, 052D is no more a "lead in" design for 055 than ticonderoga was for burke. But semantics aside, I agree with you. 055 will likely use many mature technologies from 052D (and chances are the future frigate will too). A final consolidation onto one type of VLS will benefit the fleet. IF the APAR is scalable as well, then even better -- you'll have cruisers, destroyers and frigates all hauling different sized AESAs with a common production line. And AESAs can be scaled simply by adding more T/R modules too, meaning it's definitely not unrealistic.

what more fundamental new capability can a bigger ship with more VLS brings? it would prob be same type of electronics.

The bigger Tico was stopped while us navy choose to continue build the supposilly lower-end burke well into future.

64 big rounds on a 6000 ton ship is very respectable and balanced design. and if you look at rounds/per/ton it is very well ahead of many out there.

more balanced ship gives you better flexibility and depth as oppose to bigger but fewer ships.

I rather see a more capable 054 design then a bigger 055.

 

[MwRYum]

what more fundamental new capability can a bigger ship with more VLS brings? it would prob be same type of electronics.

The bigger Tico was stopped while us navy choose to continue build the supposilly lower-end burke well into future.

64 big rounds on a 6000 ton ship is very respectable and balanced design. and if you look at rounds/per/ton it is very well ahead of many out there.

more balanced ship gives you better flexibility and depth as oppose to bigger but fewer ships.

I rather see a more capable 054 design then a bigger 055.

The primary problem is the amount of offensive firepower available - though the whole point of common VLS is to have a flexible payload options, but those ships still bears the fleet air defence as their primary role, thus there's a minimum of SAM they have to carry. With just a total of 64, after reserving the 8 slots for anti-ship missiles, only 56 slots left. So how much of those 56 slots can be assigned to LACM while maintain suitable air defence firepower? Almost all China's enemies have respectable air power or shore-based missile arsenal (the Philippines might be pathetic by themselves but they got US backing).

Thus, 64 is not enough, and if they can get a larger hull that can carry at least 96 VLS modules that'd be more suitable.