055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
But that number doesn't include the PLANs own destroyers, 052D, 052C, and the other older classes. Together they make 20-24 DDGs on top of the 30 055s (although I suspect some of them may end up being replaced by 055s as well).

So by this write up! by 2030+, we might be looking at a total of 50+ 055 large DDGs and 052D/052D successor, which would be roughly half the USNs DDG/CG force, assuming they seek to maintain their current 90+ CG/DDG numbers.

Of course, we are ignoring any developments of frigates for the PLAN and also USN as well... And i doubt the PLAN will not seek to build a force of frigates equal in number to their larger surface combatants. Not sure about USN, because the small surface combatant is only fledging at the moment.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Production to start in 2015, at both JN and DL, to ensure four are in service by 2020. 055A (with IEPS) start construction in 2020. Seek to have 15+ vessels (055 and 055A combined) in service by 2025 and 30+ vessels in service by 2030 (!!!)
Well, if they intend to build at two places, and have four in service by 2020, starting in 2015. That would be a significant build rate for these large vessels. Producing one every 2 1/2 years at the two yards.

But then, they say to build ten more in the next five years? One per year per yard? Sorry, unless they double the yards, they are not going to do it.

That would be, four in the first five years, and then ten more in the next five. As I say, unless they are building at more places, I just do not see it.

Then fifteen more in the next five after that? Seriously? Again, now 1.5 units of these 13,000 ton vessels per year per yard?

These are pure fan boy numbers. As I say, unless they first go to like four yards in the second five year span and then like five yards in the third five years. I just do not see them building thirty of these vessels and having more of them than they do 52C and 52D combined.

As to the specs, unless they are far more accurate than this build rate I have to feel they are suspect too.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Well, if they intend to build at two places, and have four in service by 2020, starting in 2015. That would be a significant build rate for these large vessels. Producing one every 2 1/2 years at the two yards.

But then, they say to build ten more in the next five years? One per year per yard? Sorry, unless they double the yards, they are not going to do it.

That would be, four in the first five years, and then ten more in the next five. As I say, unless they are building at more places, I just do not see it.

Then fifteen more in the next five after that? Seriously? Again, now 1.5 units of these 13,000 ton vessels per year per yard?

These are pure fan boy numbers. As I say, unless they first go to like four yards in the second five year span and then like five yards in the third five years. I just do not see them building thirty of these vessels and having more of them than they do 52C and 52D combined.

As to the specs, unless they are far more accurate than this build rate I have to feel they are suspect too.

It may just imply that they're planning to expand their building capacity. After all, expanding capacity will become necessary and inevitable for maintenance and logistic purposes if they plan on having such a larger fleet. It seems unlikely that they could field a large and capable blue water force with just two naval yards.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
It may just imply that they're planning to expand their building capacity. After all, expanding capacity will become necessary and inevitable for maintenance and logistic purposes if they plan on having such a larger fleet. It seems unlikely that they could field a large and capable blue water force with just two naval yards.
Excuse me?

They have numerous naval yards working on all sorts of different classes all over the country.

We are specifically talking about the yards for one class here, the projected Type 055 guided missile cruiser.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Well, if they intend to build at two places, and have four in service by 2020, starting in 2015. That would be a significant build rate for these large vessels. Producing one every 2 1/2 years at the two yards.

But then, they say to build ten more in the next five years? One per year per yard? Sorry, unless they double the yards, they are not going to do it.

That would be, four in the first five years, and then ten more in the next five. As I say, unless they are building at more places, I just do not see it.

Then fifteen more in the next five after that? Seriously? Again, now 1.5 units of these 13,000 ton vessels per year per yard?

These are pure fan boy numbers. As I say, unless they first go to like four yards in the second five year span and then like five yards in the third five years. I just do not see them building thirty of these vessels and having more of them than they do 52C and 52D combined.

I also doubt they will end up having 30 055s, however the build rate is not completely... unfeasible.

Now, hear me out. Consider that JNCX has two main building halls, and each building hall can launch an 052D about one every 6-8 months, at longest. (So theoretically, JNCX can launch two 052Ds every 6-8 months, at most, assuming both halls begin fabrication of their hulls at the same time. In reality, construction will probably be staggered)

From 2015-2020, building the first four 055s, both JNCX and DL could each be expected to launch four 055s once every 1.5 years assuming both yards have two production lines building, and if both production lines begin fabrication at the same time. So JNCX will be using both building halls, and DL will be have two production lines as well. (I use 1.5 years because 055 is a larger ship than 052D and also 055 is a new ship, so the shipyards would be less experienced and less efficient with the lead ships)

So by 2020, they should be experienced and acquainted with the construction process (so I'm going to reduce 1.5 years to 1 year, which is about fair), and if both JNCX and DL have two production lines going each (so a total of four production lines), they could potentially launch four per year -- keeping in mind that 055 is a larger ship than 052D, and 052D takes about 6-8 months to launch from any meaningful shipyard fabrication.

Now, more realistically, if two 055 production lines are active at JNCX and DL will be staggered, say, building hall 2 at JN will begin building an 055 three months after building hall 1 starts, and the same for DL. However, that still leads to an ultimate average of about 4 hulls per year.

So the big question is how many construction lines of 055 will be active at once (i.e.: how many the PLAN are willing to afford). If four are active, then the numbers might be possible.
Also important is how long it will take to go from steel cutting to launch, and how long they take from launch to commissioning.


As to the specs, unless they are far more accurate than this build rate I have to feel they are suspect too.

Yeah, the author of this write up says he got it from various insiders and cites Pop3 as a source. However without actually seeing the posts that is being cited, combined with the sheer detail and eyebrow raising dimensions that are being claimed, I can't help but feel doubt as well.

However in its defence, I do feel that the dimensions, armament, performance listed, are not unrealistic.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Excuse me?

They have numerous naval yards working on all sorts of different classes all over the country.

We are specifically talking about the yards for one class here, the projected Type 055 guided missile cruiser.

Yes, and I'm saying that if they intended to field as many as 30 type 055s in the next twenty years, they would have to increase the number of yards that could service them, so expanding the number of yards that build the particular class would make some sense.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Yes, and I'm saying that if they intended to field as many as 30 type 055s in the next twenty years, they would have to increase the number of yards that could service them, so expanding the number of yards that build the particular class would make some sense.
Hehehe...and if you read my initial point, that's exactly what I said they would have to do.

As it is, I do not believe they will build thirty 13,000 ton full load cruisers by 2030.

I personally believe they will build at least 12, if not 18 Type 052D vessels.

Then, when they start the Type 055, I would expect to probably see 6-8 of those.

With the Type 054A FFGs and probably at least 12-16 follow on FFGs they will have 32-36 very modern FFGs.

With the Six Type 052Cs and the 12-18 Type 052Ds they will have up to 24 very modern DDGs. (Not to mention the others DDGs they have, four to eight of which are not going away anytime soon).

So, 32-36 FFGs, 32 or more DDGs, and up to 8 CGs. That's what I would expect to see in the 2030 time frame. That's around 72 major surface combatants and that is a large number.

16 years from now we can get back together and see what they actually have.

Oh, and that does not include what I believe will be at least 40 of the Type 056 light frigates or corvettes that will also be in operation in that time frame.
 

jobjed

Captain
Hehehe...and if you read my initial point, that's exactly what I said they would have to do.

As it is, I do not believe they will build thirty 13,000 ton full load cruisers by 2030.

I personally believe they will build at least 12, if not 18 Type 052D vessels.

Then, when they start the Type 055, I would expect to probably see 6-8 of those.

With the Type 054A FFGs and probably at least 12-16 follow on FFGs they will have 32-36 very modern FFGs.

With the Six Type 052Cs and the 12-18 Type 052Ds they will have up to 24 very modern DDGs. (Not to mention the others DDGs they have, four to eight of which are not going away anytime soon).

So, 32-36 FFGs, 32 or more DDGs, and up to 8 CGs. That's what I would expect to see in the 2030 time frame. That's around 72 major surface combatants and that is a large number.

16 years from now we can get back together and see what they actually have.

Oh, and that does not include what I believe will be at least 40 of the Type 056 light frigates or corvettes that will also be in operation in that time frame.

If China feels confident enough to operate 8-12 052Ds in her "transition" period, so to speak, do you think she'll be satisfied with a mere 6-8 055s in her superpower prime? I'd say the numbers of the next-gen destroyers would at least match the numbers of current destroyers, if but only to be proportional to China's future economic strength and by extension, her future military budget.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
If China feels confident enough to operate 8-12 052Ds in her "transition" period, so to speak, do you think she'll be satisfied with a mere 6-8 055s in her superpower prime? I'd say the numbers of the next-gen destroyers would at least match the numbers of current destroyers, if but only to be proportional to China's future economic strength and by extension, her future military budget.
The 055, at 13,000 tons is not a destroyer. it will be a cruiser.

The Type 052D is not what I would call a transitional vessel, it is their top of the line destroyer. I expect they will build 12-18 of them...but we shall see.

In her superpower prime, operating 72 very modern major surface combatants will be a very significant force.

I do not expect China to rise to the point where she ever has, or wants, the type of world wide maritime commitments that the US Navy has. So that many FFGs, DDGs, and CGs is going to be a very potent and massed force.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top