055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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Verum

Junior Member
Speaking of missile launchers, in the old school 052C revolver style VLS, does the whole cylinder rotate or does it remain stationary?

Side Note: How to change the number of posts displayed per page? I don't check this forum often, so whenever I do, I literally get like 20 - 30 pages to flip through, which is kind of annoying.
 

szbd

Junior Member
Side Note: How to change the number of posts displayed per page? I don't check this forum often, so whenever I do, I literally get like 20 - 30 pages to flip through, which is kind of annoying.
I asked this in suggestion thread and no answer so far
 

szbd

Junior Member
Really wonder about the size of the ECM-antenna, if it truly is one (and not, as suggested, a meter-wave radar).

Do we know any instances where an ECM-antenna is so large? Also, they seem to have forgotten the two smaller arrays arranged right above it on the "balcony" - those really look like ECM arrays.

If this is indeed an ECM array, it must be truly a powerful one, capable of frying the seekers and electronics of incoming missiles.
You get this kind of size ECM on a big plane coz the plane can let the wave reach or collect wave very far. No point to do this on a ship
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
1 missile every 2 seconds per 8-cell module sounds about right, actually. OTOH the entire bank of VLS modules can launch nearly simultaneously. I watched a YouTube video a few years ago where the rear VLS bank of a Ticonderoga launched something like 5 missiles from different modules in the space of literally half a second or less, all sequentially, but all within microseconds of each other. I'll try to find it. The universal VLS is probably only going to be able to achieve this rate when it's firing hot-launched missiles such as the as-yet unrevealed MRSAM. When cold-launching there is going to be hang time between ejection and motor ignition, which will probably prevent any other cell in any other module in the section from launching, especially if the missile performs a pitching maneuver during its hang time. So the launch rate per entire VLS SECTION will be on the order of 1 missile every few seconds, and this may depend on if they have to manually confirm that the missile ignited and left the area or there was a misfire or something. Whereas with hot launching the missile either leaves the area immediately or fails to ignite and stays inside its tube, the cold launched missile has to clear the area above the VLS bank before another missile can be launched. This is the downside of cold-launched VL systems. On a VLS bank the size of the 055 (with 64 tubes in the front section), it may be possible to cold-launch 2 missiles simultaneously if they are sufficiently distant from each other.


"Hundreds" is almost certainly an overstatement. One of the few AESAs that we have information on is the APAR, which is quoted to be able to guide 32 missiles during the midcourse phase and 16 missiles during the terminal phase. I don't know if this is total or per face. If total that means each face can only provide terminal illumination for 4 missiles at a time. It also uses ICWI, which means APAR doesn't even dedicate specific T/R modules to specific engagements but rather timeshares them among the engagements.

As for the Burkes and Ticos, there are 3 Mk 99s on the Burkes and 4 Mk 99s on the Ticos, for 3 and 4 simultaneous engagements at a time. However, these things work differently from AESA direct guidance. The SPY-1D guides all the missiles during midcourse while the Mk 99s provide terminal illumination. The Mk 99 only needs to illuminate the target for a few seconds during the end game to allow the SM-2 or ESSM to find and hit their targets, maybe even less than one second. After that the Mk 99 can immediately move on to illuminate another target. That means for targets that are closely grouped together (like a volley of ASCMs launched from the same fighter), a single Mk 99 can rapidly target each missile sequentially. Its limitation is its slew rate from one target to another. If it has to slew something like 100 or 120 degrees at a time to mark each of its targets, obviously the engagement rate will slow down dramatically. The SPY-1D midcourse guidance capacity is unknown but I would guess it to be in the several dozens range.

I'd be surprised if the Type-55 VLS cells aren't slanted, which would definitely allow for multiple missiles from the same bank to be cold-launched simultaneously. In fact, couldn't the VLS slant in 4 directions, therefore allowing 4 missiles to be cold launched simultaneously?

Also, the capacity of an X-Band AESA to provide guidance for "hundreds" of missiles is not an overstatement.

The specifications for the Thales Netherlands APAR reflects the fact that European navies don't need to provide terminal guidance to hundreds of SAMs. So it's just a question of dedicating processing power and TR modules to the task.

And with the proposed Chinese arsenal ship, there presumably would be a requirement for a Type-55 to guide hundreds of SAMs at the same time.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I'd be surprised if the Type-55 VLS cells aren't slanted, which would definitely allow for multiple missiles from the same bank to be cold-launched simultaneously. In fact, couldn't the VLS slant in 4 directions, therefore allowing 4 missiles to be cold launched simultaneously?

I'd be surprised if the Chinese universal VLS had their cells slanted... and we've had photos of their VLS cells with doors open as well as VLS modules outside of the ship before they were installed onto 052Ds. I'm pretty sure they're not slanted in the way you imagine...

In fact where did this idea even come from anyway?
 

MwRYum

Major
Speaking of missile launchers, in the old school 052C revolver style VLS, does the whole cylinder rotate or does it remain stationary?

The 052C HHQ-9 VLS launcher have hatch for each missile, so it's stationary. Type 051C with its S-300FM, use the Russian revolver system.

I'd be surprised if the Chinese universal VLS had their cells slanted... and we've had photos of their VLS cells with doors open as well as VLS modules outside of the ship before they were installed onto 052Ds. I'm pretty sure they're not slanted in the way you imagine...

In fact where did this idea even come from anyway?

Think he mixed up with the 052C cold-launch arrangement - the installation is slanted outward serves as an insurance policy that should the missile engine failed to ignite after ejection, it'd fall into the sea instead back onto the deck. Think the success ignition rate by now have made such arrangement no longer necessary, and naturally the new universal VLS system is straight throughout, maximise the space utilisation.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The three launches from the rear Burke occurred in about a space of just under two seconds. The two from the aft group happened within a second with the one forward coming right on their heals.

Multi-MK41-Launch-01.jpg

There are other videos out there with even more...but suffice it to say...the system is made to engage multiple targets in a saturation attack, and getting off two missiles at each as quickly as possible so as to be in a position to follow up if necessary.

And with cooperative controls, it can do that from multiple vessels with control being able to maximize the magazine usage.

Like the did here, launching the fourth from the Burke in the foreground. All four missiles were launched within about to seconds.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
it's my understanding a Type 055 would mount
both hot/cold vertical launching system
Did you read my entire post? You must have missed this part:
The universal VLS is probably only going to be able to achieve this rate when it's firing hot-launched missiles such as the as-yet unrevealed MRSAM.

Speaking of missile launchers, in the old school 052C revolver style VLS, does the whole cylinder rotate or does it remain stationary?
The entire cylinder is stationary at all times, both during firing and reloading, as there is no mechanism to rotate the cylinder.

I'd be surprised if the Type-55 VLS cells aren't slanted, which would definitely allow for multiple missiles from the same bank to be cold-launched simultaneously. In fact, couldn't the VLS slant in 4 directions, therefore allowing 4 missiles to be cold launched simultaneously?
The universal VLS cells are most definitely NOT slanted. Only the 052C cylindrical VLS launchers are slanted.

Also, the capacity of an X-Band AESA to provide guidance for "hundreds" of missiles is not an overstatement.

The specifications for the Thales Netherlands APAR reflects the fact that European navies don't need to provide terminal guidance to hundreds of SAMs. So it's just a question of dedicating processing power and TR modules to the task.

And with the proposed Chinese arsenal ship, there presumably would be a requirement for a Type-55 to guide hundreds of SAMs at the same time.
Do you have any links demonstrating a radar/data system combo that can guide "hundreds" of missiles?
 
Did you read my entire post? You must have missed this part:



...
oops, I'm sorry (the sentence you now quoted again comes right after "the video part"
I watched a YouTube video a few years ago where the rear VLS bank of a Ticonderoga launched something like 5 missiles from different modules in the space of literally half a second or less, all sequentially, but all within microseconds of each other. I'll try to find it.
so LOL likely I had been excited then)

by the way will you post that vid?
 
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