055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[latenlazy]

Your opinion about my alleged level of rudeness hardly constitutes any kind of standard given your posting history so I don't judge your conclusion about my supposed double standards as having any kind of merit.

I don't think I'm alone in thinking "Wow, you sound you're someone who is easily bruised, delicate tulip" sounds rude. You called me "delicate", and I didn't take kindly to that. I called you "delicate" in return, and you didn't take kindly to it either. If you think my taking exception is invalid but you taking exception isn't, that, logically speaking, would be a double standard. My opinion has no bearing on the validity of that logic.

 

[Iron Man]

Yeah, maybe.

I'm not sure how new you really are to this forum or the larger PLA watching community overall. There are certain patterns of behaviour and precedents and past bouts of rather bitter debates in previous years that myself and latenlazy have both partaken in, especially on SDF in particular and which many other members with five or more years under their belt have observed.

The result is that some unspoken etiquettes around certain topics have developed, including the length of the fuse for certain lines of argument, which will in turn differ depending on the experience of the member posting it. For example, I probably would not have been anywhere near as severe against a new member making terran_empire's comment, but as a member with a fairly long presence on this forum I expect a more aware understanding from terran_empire about a well argued topic like this.


As for yourself, yes I do think you are far too quick to offer snark to others who disagree with you, in a way that is inconsistent with the etiquettes and norms that have been developed over the years. You're free to ignore those norms or not acknowledge the etiquettes as even existing, and are of course free to conduct yourself in whatever manner you wish.
But the only reason I am bothering to even write this is because I consider the actual content of your arguments to be worthwhile and logical and I think it would benefit everyone if you could conduct your arguments in a way that is less combative to allow for more productive discussion.

There have been many members in the past who have been very snarky and offensive but whose content and arguments were absolute rubbish and those would simply be not acknowledged at all.

I was not aware there was any kind of established etiquette given that I've now seen all manner of interactions here, some of which I thought would be shut down by mods but never were, and others which were shut down which I didn't think would be. We all have our own personal comfort level with debates, and as long as people aren't straight up calling each other names (oh wait), threadbombing, or openly flamebaiting, then it's up to the mods to decide which debates are and are not crossing any forum lines.

I don't think I'm alone in thinking "Wow, you sound you're someone who is easily bruised, delicate tulip" sounds rude. You called me "delicate", and I didn't take kindly to that. I called you "delicate" in return, and you didn't take kindly to it either. If you think my taking exception is invalid but you taking exception isn't, that, logically speaking, would be a double standard. My opinion has no bearing on the validity of that logic.

I didn't find you calling me delicate insulting at all, especially as it was invented by me to humorously describe you. What I didn't take kindly to is you and bltizo trying to dress me down for tone given your own tones.

 

[latenlazy]

I was not aware there was any kind of established etiquette given that I've now seen all manner of interactions here, some of which I thought would be shut down by mods but never were, and others which were shut down which I didn't think would be. We all have our own personal comfort level with debates, and as long as people aren't straight up calling each other names (oh wait), threadbombing, or openly flamebaiting, then it's up to the mods to decide which debates are and are not crossing any forum lines.


I didn't find you calling me delicate insulting at all, especially as it was invented by me to humorously describe you. What I didn't take kindly to is you and bltizo trying to dress me down for tone given your own tones.

Well, our "tone" was in reaction to your "tone", hence my original comment about how you could afford to be less obnoxious. I would add that that's what happened last time too. My less than polite comments were a reaction to your less than polite comments, and I noted as much. If you don't like people considering your comments to be impolite, perhaps you should consider why that is. It's not always someone else's fault.

 

[Iron Man]

Well, our "tone" was in reaction to your "tone", hence my original comment about how you could afford to be less obnoxious. I would add that that's what happened last time too. My less than polite comments were a reaction to your less than polite comments, and I noted as much. If you don't like people considering your comments to be impolite, perhaps you should consider why that is. It's not always someone else's fault.

I don't consider my tone to be the most polite on SDF, no. But then again neither is my tone always the same in many or most circumstances or with the same people. On the other hand, I don't complain about your tone, or bltizo's tone, no matter what it is. I was not complaining about the other guy's tone either. What I was doing was pointing out that your own tone was not decent so that regardless of whether you feel that your tone was a reaction to my tone, you don't get to act badly and then tell me to act differently from you. That is my point.

 

[latenlazy]

I don't consider my tone to be the most polite on SDF, no. But then again neither is my tone always the same in many or most circumstances or with the same people. On the other hand, I don't complain about your tone, or bltizo's tone, no matter what it is. I was not complaining about the other guy's tone either. What I was doing was pointing out that your own tone was not decent so that regardless of whether you feel that your tone was a reaction to my tone, you don't get to act badly and then tell me to act differently from you. That is my point.

Well, actually, seeing as you defend your right to do whatever you want here without complaint, I should feel free to do whatever I want too! If you refuse to consider the indignation of others in response to your conduct, it would be hypocritical for you to expect me to consider your indignation in response to my conduct. If we really want to use hypocrisy as the standard by which someone's words should be considered or ignored, it's going to cut both ways.

 

[Iron Man]

Well, actually, seeing as you feel free to do whatever you want here, I should feel free to do whatever I want too! If you refuse to consider the indignation of others in response to your conduct, it would be hypocritical for you to expect me to care about mine.

Don't get me wrong. You are obviously free to do whatever you want. What I mean is that you can tell me whatever you want, but you shouldn't expect to have any kind of effect if you are acting in a manner which is not consistent with your demands. I also didn't say that I agree that your claim that your tone is some kind of reaction to my tone is an accurate claim to begin with. In any case, we both know this thread is going to get nuked in the morning, so whatever.

 

[latenlazy]

Don't get me wrong. You are obviously free to do whatever you want. What I mean is that you can tell me whatever you want, but you shouldn't expect to have any kind of effect if you are acting in a manner which is not consistent with your demands. I also didn't say that I agree that your claim that your tone is some kind of reaction to my tone is an accurate claim to begin with. In any case, we both know this thread is going to get nuked in the morning, so whatever.

I'm not expecting anything. I am, however, making the effort to point out where I find your behavior problematic and asking that you recognize it.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with me if I find that your tone justifies a reaction. That's for me to decide based on my own judgement. What you do based on my reaction is your call. However if others take issue with your behavior and your response is to double down rather than listen, that's going to justify further response and criticism.

You can disregard my judgement that you started it first of course, but without any objective basis I can likewise do the same to you. Note though, if someone kills your family and you decide to kill theirs, that isn't "they killed my family so it doesn't count as killing when I kill theirs". People still died. It's "I'm not morally accountable to blame for my actions because someone did it first." This is why the "because you're a hypocrite I don't have to listen to you" argument doesn't work very well. You don't have to listen to what I have to say about your conduct, but that doesn't change that others have found you to be acting with bad conduct.

 

[Iron Man]

I'm not expecting anything. I am, however, making the effort to point out where I find your behavior problematic and asking that you recognize it.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with me if I find that your tone justifies a reaction. That's for me to decide based on my own judgement. What you do based on my reaction is your call. However if others take issue with your behavior and your response is to double down rather than listen, that's going to justify further response and criticism.

You can disregard my judgement that you started it first of course, but without any objective basis I can likewise do the same to you. Note though, if someone kills your family and you decide to kill theirs, that isn't "they killed my family so it doesn't count as killing when I kill theirs". People still died. It's "I'm not morally accountable to blame for my actions because someone did it first." This is why the "because you're a hypocrite I don't have to listen to you" argument doesn't work very well. You don't have to listen to what I have to say about your conduct, but that doesn't change that others have found you to be acting with bad conduct.

The "I don't have to listen to you because you're a hypocrite" argument actually works pretty well for me. I expect it works for most other people as well. Worry about your own behavior, not about mine.

 

[latenlazy]

The "I don't have to listen to you because you're a hypocrite" argument actually works pretty well for me. I expect it works for most other people as well. Worry about your own behavior, not about mine.

If I should worry about my own behavior based on your feedback, perhaps you should worry about your own behavior based on the feedback of mind and others.

 

[Iron Man]

If I should worry about my own behavior based on your feedback, perhaps you should worry about your own behavior based on the feedback of mind and others.

I don't worry about what you base your own behavior on, and neither should you worry about what I base my behavior on.