055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[latenlazy]

Asking someone to do as they say, not as they do, typically holds little weight with me, as it would with most people. I don't ask anyone, including you, to do anything at all except stick to the subject.

Personal attacks don't stick to the subject, hence this discussion about your conduct.

You complain when you perceive others attacking you, but when others complain about you attacking them you would rather call people who point out your conduct hypocrites. If people with double standards don't hold much weight to you, perhaps you shouldn't take yourself too seriously either...This is why it's wiser to judge a message on its own merits rather than weigh a message based on who the messenger is.

 

[Shaolian]

Guys, there is the ignore button. There are people who argue for argument's sake. Even if there are some miniscule reason in their posts, they are too imbedded among the junks in the majority if their posts. Seriously, we are not missing much by ignoring them.

 

[Iron Man]

Personal attacks don't stick to the subject, hence this discussion about your conduct.

You complain when you perceive others attacking you, but when others complain about you attacking them you would rather call people who point out your conduct hypocrites. If people with double standards don't hold much weight to you, perhaps you shouldn't take yourself too seriously either...This is why it's wiser judge a message on its own merits rather than weigh a message based on who the messenger is.

What are you even talking about at this point? I'm somehow "complaining" about your personal attacks just by the very fact of pointing them out for the purpose of establishing your hypocrisy? No, I don't complain about anyone's personal attacks against me, but you certainly do.

 

[Blitzo]

I have to say that by the way you tried to shut down the J-20 discussion, your own choice of words was entirely combative and patronizing even if I happen to agree with the substance of your post there, so I find this latest post somewhat less than non-hypocritical. You are also fueling this stupid non-topical discussion further.

The difference is that I didn't attack terran_empire himself but rather his argument and the logic behind his argument. However I also didn't call him names for using his argument or logic.

Another big difference is continuity -- the discussion about J-20's gun issue has been sparred about for literally years, using the same talking points that we've seen again and again, so I think some level of snark from various sides is more acceptable.
OTOH your manner of response to salty waters but also many other members who you have engaged in debate with has resulted in a few of those members perceiving your responses to be combative, patronizing or a combination, even when those debates across an array of subjects and often without any prior history of continuous or contentious debate surrounding that topic that would semi-explain a degree of snark.

 

[latenlazy]

What are you even talking about at this point? I'm somehow "complaining" about your personal attacks just by the very fact of pointing them out for the purpose of establishing your hypocrisy? No, I don't complain about anyone's personal attacks against me, but you certainly do.

"Wow, you sound you're someone who is easily bruised, delicate tulip"

"BTW, coming from someone who likes to use epithets like "ass", I don't find your comments particularly non-hypocritical, especially given your last few posts are full of personal attacks "petulance", "combative", etc., and even more importantly is grossly off-topic, so please stop talking already. There, did that wink change things?"

"I have to say that by the way you tried to shut down the J-20 discussion, your own choice of words was entirely combative and patronizing even if I happen to agree with the substance of your post there, so I find this latest post somewhat less than non-hypocritical. Youare also fueling this stupid non-topical discussion further."

Those all sound like complaints to me.

 

[Iron Man]

The difference is that I didn't attack terran_empire himself but rather his argument and the logic behind his argument. However I also didn't call him names for using his argument or logic.

Another big difference is continuity -- the discussion about J-20's gun issue has been sparred about for literally years, using the same talking points that we've seen again and again, so I think some level of snark from various sides is more acceptable.
OTOH your manner of response to salty waters but also many other members who you have engaged in debate with has resulted in a few of those members perceiving your responses to be combative, patronizing or a combination, even when those debates across an array of subjects and often without any prior history of continuous or contentious debate surrounding that topic that would semi-explain a degree of snark.

I see, so you justify your own combativeness and patronization as some kind of historically-justified "snark", which makes it all the better. Allegedly. Well it's hard to separate the man from the post when you are using words like "irritating" "idiocy" and "stupidity". Let's be honest, you didn't even bother in that post and nobody truly is really going to separate the two here. You and Lazy both seem to have less than consistent views about how others should post.

 

[Iron Man]

"Wow, you sound you're someone who is easily bruised, delicate tulip"

"BTW, coming from someone who likes to use epithets like "ass", I don't find your comments particularly non-hypocritical, especially given your last few posts are full of personal attacks "petulance", "combative", etc., and even more importantly is grossly off-topic, so please stop talking already. There, did that wink change things?"

"I have to say that by the way you tried to shut down the J-20 discussion, your own choice of words was entirely combative and patronizing even if I happen to agree with the substance of your post there, so I find this latest post somewhat less than non-hypocritical. Youare also fueling this stupid non-topical discussion further."

Those all sound like complaints to me.

Again, all in response to yours and bltizo's own initiated whining about me, otherwise I would never have even bothered to point out your hypocrisy.

 

[latenlazy]

Again, all in response to YOUR own initiated whining about me, otherwise I would never have even bothered to point out your hypocrisy.

You react very rudely and obnoxiously to someone who was being rather polite with you, and when others point this out you take exception by calling them whiners and hypocrites while excusing and deflecting your own rudeness. That looks like a double standard to me.

Anyways, I'm not bringing this up to score points. Can we agree to all have better conduct in the future?

 

[Iron Man]

You react very rudely and obnoxiously to someone who was being rather polite with you, and when others point this out you take exception by calling them whiners and hypocrites while excusing and deflecting your own rudeness. That looks like a double standard to me.

Your opinion about my alleged level of rudeness hardly constitutes any kind of standard given your posting history so I don't judge your conclusion about my supposed double standards as having any kind of merit.

 

[Blitzo]

I see, so you justify your own combativeness and patronization as some kind of historically-justified "snark", which makes it all the better. Allegedly. Well it's hard to separate the man from the post when you are using words like "irritating" "idiocy" and "stupidity". Let's be honest, you didn't even bother in that post and nobody truly is really going to separate the two here. You and Lazy both seem to have less than consistent views about how others should post.

Yeah, maybe.

I'm not sure how new you really are to this forum or the larger PLA watching community overall. There are certain patterns of behaviour and precedents and past bouts of rather bitter debates in previous years that myself and latenlazy have both partaken in, especially on SDF in particular and which many other members with five or more years under their belt have observed.

The result is that some unspoken etiquettes around certain topics have developed, including the length of the fuse for certain lines of argument, which will in turn differ depending on the experience of the member posting it. For example, I probably would not have been anywhere near as severe against a new member making terran_empire's comment, but as a member with a fairly long presence on this forum I expect a more aware understanding from terran_empire about a well argued topic like this.


As for yourself, yes I do think you are far too quick to offer snark to others who disagree with you, in a way that is inconsistent with the etiquettes and norms that have been developed over the years. You're free to ignore those norms or not acknowledge the etiquettes as even existing, and are of course free to conduct yourself in whatever manner you wish.
But the only reason I am bothering to even write this is because I consider the actual content of your arguments to be worthwhile and logical and I think it would benefit everyone if you could conduct your arguments in a way that is less combative to allow for more productive discussion.

There have been many members in the past who have been very snarky and offensive but whose content and arguments were absolute rubbish and those would simply be not acknowledged at all.