055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Salty_Waters]

I agree, especially since they are building a lot of them at once. If they were doing something really new they would build one ship and conduct some serious tests before starting "mass production".

That's what I thought earlier as well.

But looking at the building process of the 052D and the 054A reality teached me something different. Both classes had at least the second unit already in production before the first was in water or even well tested. With the 054A it where 4 first units. China has changed in that way, they are much more self confident in the shipbuilding programs, for good reasons. That's my lesson from that named classes.

And these classes had new features the predecessor hadn't.

nevertheless testing the IEP in a land based setup already happened. I'll provide images if I can find them again. Experiences with that concept where already made. To admit, on civilian vessels, but thoroughly evaluated by the technical institutes in china.

 

[Iron Man]

Thank you for your reply. But, it was not a speculation about a speculation. A simple: no I don't have further information about that and you won't find any would have been an appropriate answer, at least more polite than teaching me if an question is legit or not. For me the question is legit enough due to several reasons and I appreciate well thought answers from that great community.

But I take it as your kind of welcome to a newbee...

But let's get to the reasons for me to put that question on the board.
1. Within the last two years there where two CG's depicting the 055 with IEP. I've not seen an other chinese class where CG showed that config. There where illustrations with conventional configuration as well, I had to admit.
2. That concept was already realized by chinese shipbuilding companies in the past. It was done with commercial vessels (Ferries in corporation with ABB) and if I am not wrong, it was realized in a research vessel.
3. Some deeper web research reveals different scientific works and graduation works since 2008 on chinese universities f.e. the Wuhan University dealing with the special issues regarding IEP.
4. In 2013 Wuhan research institute for maritime electric propulsion announced mayor breakthrough in developing IEP, in that context they announced the 054B to be an IEP propelled vessel.

So far to the let's say facts... I know, they are all just hints that something is going on and that china is eager to use that key technology. But I think that these points, keeping in mind all the advantages of that technology especially applied on 055, legitimate my question.

Wow, you sound you're someone who is easily bruised, delicate tulip. I wasn't referring to your question about IEP being illegitimate, so calm down. My issue was that you were going into painstaking detail on a CGI. A CGI. Why would you need to do that for someone's fanboi fantasy drawing??? That's not too different from me making up a notional blueprint of a Star Destroyer and you critiquing in painstaking detail the placement of my ion cannons and hyperdrive systems.

In any case, as far as anyone knows there has been no speculation from the big shrimps on Chinese BBS regarding the 055 having IEP in its first run, which is the main reason I think most people do not believe IEP will be present. As for later batches/flights of the 055, who knows. If the rumors are true the PLAN seems to be ready to deploy IEP on the 054B. On the other hand IEP on a 054B is not the same thing as IEP on a 055 that's more than twice as large. Also, you using random internet fanboi CGIs as some kind of 'evidence' that the 055 may come with IEP is like me using Halloween photographs to prove that the Yeti is real. Are you even serious?

That's what I thought earlier as well.

But looking at the building process of the 052D and the 054A reality teached me something different. Both classes had at least the second unit already in production before the first was in water or even well tested. With the 054A it where 4 first units. China has changed in that way, they are much more self confident in the shipbuilding programs, for good reasons. That's my lesson from that named classes.

And these classes had new features the predecessor hadn't.

nevertheless testing the IEP in a land based setup already happened. I'll provide images if I can find them again. Experiences with that concept where already made. To admit, on civilian vessels, but thoroughly evaluated by the technical institutes in china.

Both these classes are poor choices for your "lesson", mainly because both of them have predecessors that were thoroughly tested with significant wait times before progression to the next class: the 052D had the 052C, and the 054A had the 054. Once the 054 and the 052C were built, tested, and their designs refined, there was certainly no need to take baby steps with the 054A and the 052D, and it was easy to build them en masse. Your "new features" consisted of electronics and weapons which were already tested on the 909 test ship so by the time they made it onto the production ships, they were already thoroughly vetted. New but tested weapons/sensors + established hulls = fast builds. Nothing so dramatic that anyone needs to learn a "lesson" over.

 

[latenlazy]

Wow, you sound you're someone who is easily bruised, delicate tulip. I wasn't referring to your question about IEP being illegitimate, so calm down. My issue was that you were going into painstaking detail on a CGI. A CGI. Why would you need to do that for someone's fanboi fantasy drawing??? That's not too different from me making up a notional blueprint of a Star Destroyer and you critiquing in painstaking detail the placement of my ion cannons and hyperdrive systems.

In any case, as far as anyone knows there has been no speculation from the big shrimps on Chinese BBS regarding the 055 having IEP in its first run, which is the main reason I think most people do not believe IEP will be present. As for later batches/flights of the 055, who knows. If the rumors are true the PLAN seems to be ready to deploy IEP on the 054B. On the other hand IEP on a 054B is not the same thing as IEP on a 055 that's more than twice as large. Also, you using random internet fanboi CGIs as some kind of 'evidence' that the 055 may come with IEP is like me using Halloween photographs to prove that the Yeti is real. Are you even serious?


Both these classes are poor choices for your "lesson", mainly because both of them have predecessors that were thoroughly tested with significant wait times before progression to the next class: the 052D had the 052C, and the 054A had the 054. Once the 054 and the 052C were built, tested, and their designs refined, there was certainly no need to take baby steps with the 054A and the 052D, and it was easy to build them en masse. Your "new features" consisted of electronics and weapons which were already tested on the 909 test ship so by the time they made it onto the production ships, they were already thoroughly vetted. New but tested weapons/sensors + established hulls = fast builds. Nothing so dramatic that anyone needs to learn a "lesson" over.

You could afford to be less obnoxious and combative.

 

[Iron Man]

You could afford to be less obnoxious and combative.

He took offense at this innocuous statement: "No need to go into so much detailed speculation about another speculation." That you seem to agree is in line with your historical record of, uh, similar delicateness.

 

[latenlazy]

He took offense at this innocuous statement: "No need to go into so much detailed speculation about another speculation." That you seem to agree is in line with your historical record of, uh, similar delicateness.

I don't think his reply reflected any offense at all. He even gave you a wink. You seem quite delicate yourself, flying off the handle the way you did (a recurring pattern, it seems). A bit beside the point though. Regardless of what you think of his position, attacking a person is not productive, and is antithetical to intelligent and substantive discussion. Spare us the petulance if you can and stick to substance.

 

[Iron Man]

I don't think his reply reflected any offense at all. He even gave you a wink. You seem quite delicate yourself, flying off the handle the way you did (a recurring pattern, it seems). A bit beside the point though. Regardless of what you think of his position, attacking a person is not productive, and is antithetical to intelligent and substantive discussion. Spare us the petulance if you can and stick to substance.

Obviously he took offense. Did you somehow miss this, fellow delicate tulip? "A simple: no I don't have further information about that and you won't find any would have been an appropriate answer, at least more polite than teaching me if an question is legit or not." BTW, coming from someone who likes to use epithets like "ass", I don't find your comments particularly non-hypocritical, especially given your last few posts are full of personal attacks "petulance", "combative", etc., and even more importantly is grossly off-topic, so please stop talking already. There, did that wink change things?

 

[Blitzo]

He took offense at this innocuous statement: "No need to go into so much detailed speculation about another speculation." That you seem to agree is in line with your historical record of, uh, similar delicateness.

I agree with latenlazy, I think you really could do with being less combative and patronizing.

I think you make a lot of good arguments but sometimes the way you make those arguments to people who disagree with you is far too personal often with a few specific sentences that distracts from the rest of a well constructed argument. For example in this case I overall agree with your position, but you ruin any chance of a mutually agreeable settlement to the debate due to the first two sentence of your reply to saltywaters, and those two sentences do nothing but create tension without adding anything to an otherwise well reasoned reply.
Sure, you could argue that maybe me, latenlazy and maybe even others are all just being far too sensitive and should harden up, but I think one of the reasons this forum has lasted so long and remains a good source of discussion, is because we can attack each other's arguments or the logic behind each other's arguments, without attacking each other as people or making offending remarks about their personality traits. The latter of course does happen, but typically only if the person is a very rare case of deliberate trolling or something.

 

[Iron Man]

I agree with latenlazy, I think you really could do with being less combative and patronizing.

I think you make a lot of good arguments but sometimes the way you make those arguments to people who disagree with you is far too personal often with a few specific sentences that distracts from the rest of a well constructed argument. For example in this case I overall agree with your position, but you ruin any chance of a mutually agreeable settlement to the debate due to the first two sentence of your reply to saltywaters, and those two sentences do nothing but create tension without adding anything to an otherwise well reasoned reply.
Sure, you could argue that maybe me, latenlazy and maybe even others are all just being far too sensitive and should harden up, but I think one of the reasons this forum has lasted so long and remains a good source of discussion, is because we can attack each other's arguments or the logic behind each other's arguments, without attacking each other as people or making offending remarks about their personality traits. The latter of course does happen, but typically only if the person is a very rare case of deliberate trolling or something.

I have to say that by the way you tried to shut down the J-20 discussion, your own choice of words was entirely combative and patronizing even if I happen to agree with the substance of your post there, so I find this latest post somewhat less than non-hypocritical. You are also fueling this stupid non-topical discussion further.

 

[latenlazy]

Obviously he took offense. Did you somehow miss this, fellow delicate tulip? "A simple: no I don't have further information about that and you won't find any would have been an appropriate answer, at least more polite than teaching me if an question is legit or not." BTW, coming from someone who likes to use epithets like "ass", I don't find your comments particularly non-hypocritical, especially given your last few posts are full of personal attacks "petulance", "combative", etc., and even more importantly is grossly off-topic, so please stop talking already. There, did that wink change things?

If he was rebuffing a perceived slight, he was being quite polite with about it with you.

Even if I'm a hypocritic, that doesn't excuse your conduct. In my defense though, I am making observations about how your comments come off and asking you to do better for the sake of keeping the discussion constructive.

 

[Iron Man]

If he was rebuffing a perceived slight, he was being quite polite with you.

Even if I'm a hypocritic, that doesn't excuse your conduct. In my defense though, I am making observations about how your comments come off and asking you to do better.

Asking someone to do as they say, not as they do, typically holds little weight with me, as it would with most people. I don't ask anyone, including you, to do anything at all except stick to the subject.