055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Blitzo]

What I mean: There is basically no reason for why Dalian would remove the aft section again, 11 days after they have welded it on the hull. Or disassemble the 055, for that matter.

EDIT:
Probably I'm wrong with calling it the "aft section" since this might actually be the prow of the ship.
But my point still stands.

Updated the image.

I think I have an explanation for what happened.

I think that the 055 in Nov is actually at a lesser state of completion than it looked then, and that the 055 in the two pictures are really the same ship.

If we look carefully at the 055 in Nov we can see it is still actually in several unattached modules, but it looks like it is more complete than it actually is because the crane is overhead blocking the area where there is a space between two modules, and what looks like the keel of the "bow" of the 055 in the Nov picture is not really attached to the 055 at all.

And in the December picture, the modules are a little more joined closer together, and the overall ship modules are moved a little bit as well, and the "bow" of the 055 has been moved away to whatever site or ship it is meant for (aka not related to 055), thus giving the appearance like the ship has become "less" complete, when in reality the ship was never that complete in November to begin with.

 

[vincent]

deleted

 

[subotai1]

I'm asking if that was part of his assertion, exactly because his original point didn't make any point about evolutionary or revolutionary advancement of 055 vs 052D, and to demonstrate you're the one who brought it up first.

He said that advancements in computing/design could have been an aspect in allowing the shipbuilding industry to turn out 055s like we are seeing so quickly and so early, and I don't think you've made an argument to suggest such a possibility is unlikely.
So I'm saying that bringing in the evolutionary or revolutionary nature of 055 is not relevant to his suggestion.


If you wanted to suggest that advancements in computing/design didn't have a role in 055's production as we see it, then we need to enter a thought experiment where the Navy hypothetically did not have access to the advancements in computing/design from the last few years or half decade or so, and were still required to design 055 to the same standards as reality, and then consider whether they would have been as willing to green light the same rapid and early production in their "without last few years of advancements in computing/design-universe" as our reality where these advancements did occur.
in other words, if the goal is to prove that the advancements in computing/design didn't have a role in 055's production, we need to compare two similar (preferably identical) projects with similar parameters where the only difference is that one has access to those advancements and where another does not, with the result being whether the one without those advancements would have built 055s at the same rate and early state as the one with advancements.

I really wasn't thinking about evolutionary vs revolutionary because I don't see it as important. I was thinking about how what we are seeing shines a light on what I think is going behind the scenes that enables the production we are seeing. I don't doubt that China has been using computers in their design for years, if not decades.

The most interesting potential development to me is modeling and simulation. And when I say modeling I mean taking a finished design of something and subjecting it to our "model" of the physical world to see how it behaves. In this case that would mean take that design of the ship with all of its physical characteristics including the material used and where, the tensile characteristics of the materials, the engine output, projected loadout and much much more and then subject that to the model of the oceans and waves. Doing this would show where things break, work and perform and where they don't. You can do the same with the ship in combat scenarios. Add in the super-computing aspect of this and now you can do this simulation millions of times with different parameters (material type, engine size, different length, etc) and compare for which parameters show the best output.

The results of this end in much higher confidence in your design and a design that does not require lots of one-off builds of something that you need to sail and observe. You may decide at the end of this process that you can afford (from a risk and cost perspective) to build 8 of something.

 

[FORBIN]

Are You sure that this huge freighter (in the dry dock ?) is less completed ? IMO in the November image is has a full block on the aft more ?!!

View attachment 36309

What I mean: There is basically no reason for why Dalian would remove the aft section again, 11 days after they have welded it on the hull. Or disassemble the 055, for that matter.

EDIT:
Probably I'm wrong with calling it the "aft section" since this might actually be the prow of the ship.
But my point still stands.

Updated the image.

Fine job Sirs you enlight me but new 055 despite Chinese build more cheaper is enough expensive so can we envisaged less 054A but in fact seems confirmed, 2 for 2017 up to 4 before and mainly 052D class finished to 14 units or less by year 1 or 2 ?

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[Insignius]

@FORBIN
Yeah, there are some suggestions that maybe the 052D will be cut short at the current planned 18. But that is left to be confirmed.
As for 054A, I think the run is also coming to an end. Maybe they will build 30 in total, but then it will be time to move on to a successor Frigate. Frigates are always useful, even if you have a large fleet of Cruisers.

@Blitzo
We have to wait and see. Maybe Jane's/SOC will make a update soon about the 4th 055 in Dalian. And maybe we will even get the missing satellite photos between November 20th and December 1st to confirm what really has happened. Actually, where do the November shots even come from? GE does not have any November shots last time I checked. Was this, maybe, a deliberate leak?

 

[SanWenYu]

Fine job Sirs you elight me but new 055 despite Chinese build more cheaper is enough expensive so can we envisaged less 054A but in fact seems confirmed, 2 for 2017 up to 4 before and mainly 052D class finished to 14 units ?

If I am not misunderstanding, you are saying that PLAN is building this many of 055s at the expense of having less 054As?

I think it is more likely that 054A is close to end of production. There have been talks of a new frigate class to succeed 054A soon. The 054A is less than ideal for CV escort mainly due to its lack of engine power for higher max speed.

I am not sure actually. I am still digesting the rumor that PLAN placed the order for 8 055s at once in the first batch, as if they had been given a blank cheque.

 

[FORBIN]

If I am not misunderstanding, you are saying that PLAN is building this many of 055s at the expense of having less 054As?

I think it is more likely that 054A is close to end of production. There have been talks of a new frigate class to succeed 054A soon. The 054A is less than ideal for CV escort mainly due to its lack of engine power for higher max speed.

I am not sure actually. I am still digesting the rumor that PLAN placed the order for 8 055s at once in the first batch, as if they had been given a blank cheque.

Ok in anyway we are now in a real naval armaments race had begun in fact saying with 2nd batch of 052Cs the beginnings 2013 and also USA buld now more combattants this year 3 Burke enter in service next years 2 in addtion 2 Zumwalts in 2018, 2020 also 4 LCS by year with AShMs for soon, first year with 2 Virginias .

Russians more laborious with problem with Ukraine and turnines for new classes.

South Korea also very dynamic in the main naval theater now effectively since 2010.

Clear ramp up also in India now 3 AEGIS like Kolkata and 4 will follow for 2022

I hope in Europe also more combattants possible and UK get 2 CVs !

Exciting

 

[FORBIN]

@FORBIN
Yeah, there are some suggestions that maybe the 052D will be cut short at the current planned 18. But that is left to be confirmed.
As for 054A, I think the run is also coming to an end. Maybe they will build 30 in total, but then it will be time to move on to a successor Frigate. Frigates are always useful, even if you have a large fleet of Cruisers.

NavyReco surely with infos from Henri K Had said 32 FFGs 054A in order, seems good.
052D right now planned 14 i have.

 

[SanWenYu]

we are now in a real naval armaments race

Probably not. China has learned the lesson from the former Soviet Union. The PLAN doesn't have the mandate to race against the USN.

 

[antiterror13]

Fine job Sirs you enlight me but new 055 despite Chinese build more cheaper is enough expensive so can we envisaged less 054A but in fact seems confirmed, 2 for 2017 up to 4 before and mainly 052D class finished to 14 units or less by year 1 or 2 ?

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Forbin ... I really want to read and understand your posts as you are one of the experts ...... but I am really totally confused ... ... would you like to try write in French and translate it to English by Google? in most cases it would work good enough ... no offence Forbin