055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread
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Jura The idiot
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I'm getting lost (yes, I've read the whole exchange up to here)
LOL!
so what's the truth?
LOL!
I think we may have differing understandings of what the word "intent and scope" means in this case.
The way I've interpreted the statement was that the improvements in technology subotai listed, have allowed, or contributed to, the Chinese shipbuilding industry to act on their intent and scope -- the directive (or intent) to build 055s in large numbers (or large scope) immediately off the bat.
Putting it another way, the advancements played a role in allowing the industry/navy to enable their intention to happen in the scope that they desired.
This speculation on my part is not to say that it exists, and I've never made any statement about how difficult or not it may be for the shipbuilding industry to assimilate it into 055.
This part of the discussion for me is merely about the ways in which potential advancements in software, datalinks, and the other parts of the 055 that you mentioned before as "meh" could be not "meh".
In other words, I'm saying that there are ways in which the 055 can most definitely still advance beyond 052D even if it still only has the same VLS, guns, ciws, gas turbines, radars etc as 052D, because your last post challenged me to suggest how advancements beyond those areas may be meaningful.
Whether those advancements will be implemented on 055, and whether or not they would be difficult or burdensome or challenging for the Chinese shipbuilding industry to assimilate into 055 is not something which I have a position on.
edit: this part of my reply on the last page is the only reason I expanded on this part of the topic:
"To me, if one wants to make the argument that 055 is a larger 052D, then we should be looking at all the subsystems that 055 has in common with 052D, and then consider which additional subsystems 055 may have which 052D does not, and the totality of those additional subsystems would be used to judge how reasonable the assertion is."
So by expanding on how things like new datalinks, software, CIC, flag bridge etc may potentially be consequential improvements vs 052D, the purpose is to demonstrate my belief that it may not necessarily be correct to call 055 merely a large 052D even if both have the same weapons, propulsion, primary sensors etc.
Whether 055 fields more advanced datalinks, software, CIC, flag bridge etc doesn't really matter because none of us know what that will turn out to be.
I didn't put words in your mouth, I said that it was the way your statement read, and I acknowledged that it wasn't what you meant.
As for the evolutionary nature of 055 not being a technological hurdle -- was that ever part of subotai's assertion to begin with?
Subotai said advancements in computing, design, or modelling or whatever could have contributed to 055's large scale production in the way we see now. I don't think he was suggesting that those advancements were necessary due to any supposed technological hurdle that 055 had.
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Most of the new R&D tests was passed on to the mock-up, while some were already absorbed with the systems shared with 052D, so they can afford to lay more hulls before one is launched.
First ship in class will also likely see a shorter period of sea trials compared to DDG-172.
First ship in class will also likely see a shorter period of sea trials compared to DDG-172.
I'm translating that repost you didn't understand. AFAIK people at cjdby like to stray away from topic. Never mention all those big cats (or other big shrimp's) puzzle guessing "leaking" threads are all like ask anything chatroom.
Yes, capability enables intent. But capability certainly does not imply intent, nor is it the same as intent. The point was that it is the intent to build so many 055s in such a short period of time that is "eyebrow raising", NOT the capability of the Chinese naval industry to build them. That one enables the other is completely irrelevant to the fact that the latter is what is eyebrow raising, and not the former. You keep missing this point.
It is not just a matter of whether the 055 fields more advanced anything, but whether these new subsystems actually impact the design and construction of the 055 in any meaningful way. Do you know whether a bigger CIC or the presence of an AAW commander's C&C facilities will somehow significantly delay or complicate or add risk to the design of the 055? And even taken in totality all of your alleged improvements do not constitute any real qualitative difference from the 052D. The 052D to 055 transition is certainly nothing like Spruance to Arleigh Burke, or Arleigh Burke to Zumwalt. Not even remotely close.
What are you talking about here? You are now clearly losing track of the argument. The evolutionary nature of the 055 is not Subotai's assertion, it was my assertion as a response to his post. Why would you even ask if that was part of his assertion??? He implied that the 055's rapid turnout may be the "fruition" of all these technological advancements, and I said the 055 is not a great advancement over the 052D, meaning that whatever technology allowed the 052D to be produced in large numbers will allow the 055 to be produced in large numbers, no need for any "fruition" of new technologies.
Jura The idiot
General
LOL are you? if you post this translation, I'll read it
(though in fact I looked at those posts in Chinese in the morning because I had had to edit manually like three dozen Matlab files, so the word would be I guess
it amazes me after line like this:
appears, people go writing pages and pages (it's just my general comment, I have no way of knowing if this particular info is or isn't sound)
I mean it's interesting to watch the watchers
GE update, guys. Date is 1st Dec 2016.
DL #2 is pretty much confirmed. Sits on the same site as DL #1 in the previous satellite pass from 20th November. Only conclusion would be that they have finished up #1 in like 10 days and moved it elsewhere, and then immediately started with the next hull. This is incredibly fast.
DL #2 is pretty much confirmed. Sits on the same site as DL #1 in the previous satellite pass from 20th November. Only conclusion would be that they have finished up #1 in like 10 days and moved it elsewhere, and then immediately started with the next hull. This is incredibly fast.
I miss another factor in this discussion. It is a fact that the sale and thus production of merchant ships has plummeted in the World. Chinese shipyards building naval vessels also produce merchantmen and it might well be that they informed PLAN that they would rather build naval vessels at a low profit than idling plant and, more importantly, wasting the time of trained shipbuilding personnel. Of course a naval ship consists of more than steel. The crew needs to be trained, the electronics and weapons need to be procured. But it takes a year to a year and a half between the fall off of orders and the completion of the ships already ordered.
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