I hope they do without 054B.. Concentrate on more Destroyer. 24 054A frigate will be more than enough for PLAN.. For a true long range navy especially for China without much overseas asset. A big destroyer will be more useful than frigate.
054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
I hope they do without 054B.. Concentrate on more Destroyer. 24 054A frigate will be more than enough for PLAN.. For a true long range navy especially for China without much overseas asset. A big destroyer will be more useful than frigate.
These were jeep/ escort/ light carriers 10k-15k ton carriers built on typically on fast oiler and cargo hulls with a bigger boiler-turbine or deisel set. no armor, basic air defenses.
Not irrelevent today,
these type of vessels are prob forte of all these private yards up and down yangtze region.
given what chinese industry is capable of.
I think there is a niche to be exploited here.
given the experience in ww2,
It is prob possible to design a modern day mini-jeep carrier where
*the hull and power plant is off-the-shelf commercial.
*20000 ton, commercial grade double hull based on tanker design, diesel powered two screw give minimum manuverability.
*25 nots top speed
*crewing requirement of a big destroyer (200-300). (commercial gets less)
* bolted on weapon stations.
*emphasis is on the biggest deck space for the tonnage.
*able to support attack/transport/asw/aew helicopter. in its basic form.
*basic cargo facility to act like logistical nodes for escorts (unrep fuel, cargo)
*able to support 12 light semi-stealthy STOBAR fighters of JF-17/FC-1 size comfortablly, 24 un comfortablly. given man power surge.
*number one thing is to keep the cost down.
would be a very flexible and powerful asset, if build in quantity (30 untis).
empahsis is damage resilience, persistence prescence and firepower, through sheer numbers.
2nd tier yards in china would able to handle these constructions no problem.
if they can build an oil tanker they can build these.
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There are already some very notable examples out there of just this type of small carrier...here's three that I will list.
1st, the Thai Naruebet at 12,000 tons (18 VSTOL aircraft helos+fighters):
2nd, the Italina Garibaldi at 13,000 tons (18 VSTOL aircraft helos+fighters):
3rd the Spanish Asturias at 17.000 tons (29 VSTOL aircraft helos+fighters):
MwRYum
Major
The number is almost able to allow them to replace the hopelessly obsolete 053 series and even some of the surviving 051 "destroyers", which the 054A FFG supersedes in all sectors, including size and tonnage.
And IIRC, all the world's navies have the standard procedure for the officers and men to work their way up from small ships to bigger ones, and if you look at PLAN they actually don't have that many world-class standard DDG available, so if they want more DDGs first they need to polish their future pool with this batch of FFG officers and men. With their crew begin at 054 series when they progress to 052 series (and beyond) they'd be in far better shape then from 053 series.
And not to mention the borderline between DDG and FFG get getting very muddled these days, in addition many DDGs designs today are borderline CG themselves...
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24 Type 054As is a very respectable and powerful number. They are good multi-mission combatants.
The PLAN is going to build a fairly large number of the Type 056 OPVs (in essence the PLANs littoral combat ship) and probably build them at multiple locations fairly rapidly. Maybe 20 or more of those...in addition to the 100+ Type 022s they have.
The PLAN already has 15 modern DDGs (with the 052s (2), 052Bs (2), 052Cs (4), 051B (1), 051Cs (2), and the Sovs (4)).More 052Cs are coming online...probably at least two more if not even more and I expect the PLAN will be building more DDGs in the near future. We will easily, IMHO, probably see the PLAN settle in ultimatly on a good 24 DDGs too.
Add to that the 3 Type 071 LPDs with another coming (not to mention the 27 larger LST type amphibs) and the new STOBAR Carrier, with probably a couple of more CVs coming, and the PLAN will have a very good line for commanders to progress through in terms of captaining successively larger and more capable vesels and task forces. This will all add to their capability and experience and operational effectiveness over time.
056s are going to be in the number of 40-50s
while the mountains/071 will depend on China's CBG expeditionary force composition or even if they are going to use it in such way, the sensible number for now as Jeff said is 4 or perhaps 6
things might change in the future, as PLAN contemplates their reach
while the mountains/071 will depend on China's CBG expeditionary force composition or even if they are going to use it in such way, the sensible number for now as Jeff said is 4 or perhaps 6
things might change in the future, as PLAN contemplates their reach
These are fine but IMHO too expensive for what they offer.
key is to maximize aviation capability for minimum complexity. back to something a container ship builder can deal with.
Those three are actually very inexpensive as carriers go.
In order to work with a container ship conversion you can come up with something like this, which the US Navy has studied in the last few years for offshore basing, to aviation LPHs etc. (Google Maersk Line Conversion). It has been talked about on this forum in the Carriers II thread and elsewhere as well.
In order to get here, and add the large 3 story structure with the landing deck on top (which houses berthing, armament, hangar, etc.) and the Island being militarized with the proper sensors, etc., you end up spending almost as much as you would in building one of the smaller carrier I showed above flat out.
joshuatree
Captain
Unless there is some sort of offensive or large scale war about to happen, I don't think there is a need for light carriers. Of course it doesn't mean China can't crank out light carriers if needed. But there is simply no justification presently. Refining and building larger carriers comparable to the US carriers will serve China's needs better. Thailand, Italy, and Spain have light carriers for a combination of different reasons - budget constraints, regional sea capability, production capability.