052/052B Class Destroyers

Re: DDG 052C Thread

SinoSoldier said:

Not by that many numbers. The Type 052D will be China's mass production ship, like how the Arleigh Burke is the US mass production ship.

Are my analogies too vague?

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Your analogies are fine, but your ambitions are a bit high.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

SinoSoldier said:

The speculated Yu-8 torpedo:

In 2007, domestic Chinese sources have claimed that Yu-8 torpedo had become the test vehicle and subsequently the first torpedo to be armed with a new warhead that was developed by the Chinese naval research institute. The new warhead utilizes sodium hydride compounds / chemical reaction and once detonated, large amount of sodium powder is released. The chemical reaction of sodium powder and sea water produce huge amount of hydrogen at very high temperature within very short period of time and the within range of several dozen meters, the temperature instantly increased to over two thousand degrees (celsius) as the chemical reactions taken place with hydrogen and oxygen, destroying the target even if no direct hit is scored. During the test in East China Sea, a retired twelve thousand ton ship was hit by two Yu-8 torpedoes on one side, and the side that was hit was completely melted within fifteen minutes.​

Seems like a new thermobaric underwater warhead.

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Cooling by plenty of sea water is assured, so the heat will not be important after a few minutes, let alone a quarter of an hour. But it does look like an awfully interesting warhead.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

SinoSoldier said:

The Type 054As won't stop until the 12th is launched.

18 vessels is nothing if China wants to be a naval power worldwide. I'm guessing the Type 052D and Type 054B will be mass production ships (the Type 052C/+ and Type 054A are all intermediate steps).

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Many people thought 054A stopped ages ago, but its still going. Too many speculations without actual proof except online chatter. Predicting China development is basically impossible, we don't know how many they will make, when the next variant will be.

I know I said we have 18 vessels, meaning we have 18 confirmed. And of course they aren't going to stop there. They have got alot more vessels to replace. I tend to stay away from guessing and acquisition unless I have at least some form of small proof.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Even if it is any consolation, while it will be long before China can match the qualitative level of the JMSDF, they will easily outbuild them: under FY07-10, Japan ordered five surface combatants (DDH183, DD115-118). The Defence Progamme Guideline 2010 provides for only three to be built under FY11-15 (DDH184 and presumably DDG179-180). Son in nine years, Japan is building eight major surface combatants.

China is building two frigates and will soon be building one-two destroyers annually.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

PLAN needs to about triple in size before it is commensurate with the size of the country and its economy. They'll need many years to get there.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Many years, indeed, if ever.

In numerical terms, the PLAN already outnumbers the JMSDF by a margin of 50%, having 26 destroyers and 53 frigates vs. 22 destroyers and 22 frigates (47 if you count the 3 training frigates and 51 if you count the DDH’s as destroyers), or 79 vs. 44/47/51.

But a lot of the Chinese ships are what the US currently calls “legacy” ships that will have to be replaced over the next 15 years. That should keep Chinese shipyards quite busy but leaves very little scope for expansion.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

HKSDU said:

Many people thought 054A stopped ages ago, but its still going. Too many speculations without actual proof except online chatter. Predicting China development is basically impossible, we don't know how many they will make, when the next variant will be.

I know I said we have 18 vessels, meaning we have 18 confirmed. And of course they aren't going to stop there. They have got alot more vessels to replace. I tend to stay away from guessing and acquisition unless I have at least some form of small proof.

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Amen. As to it stopping after 12, well, the 13th is already building and will soon be launched. And I believe at least five more are certainly planned, but will not speculate for sure until I see them.

I am putting together:

Re: DDG 052C Thread

franco-russe said:

Many years, indeed, if ever.

In numerical terms, the PLAN already outnumbers the JMSDF by a margin of 50%, having 26 destroyers and 53 frigates vs. 22 destroyers and 22 frigates (47 if you count the 3 training frigates and 51 if you count the DDH’s as destroyers), or 79 vs. 44/47/51.

But a lot of the Chinese ships are what the US currently calls “legacy” ships that will have to be replaced over the next 15 years. That should keep Chinese shipyards quite busy but leaves very little scope for expansion.

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I was forgetting all those legacy ships.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

delft said:

I was forgetting all those legacy ships.

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Well, with 2 Jiangkai I FFGs and now going on 13 Jiangkai II FFGs and a total of 14 Jiangwei I & II FFGs, the PLAN has a credible force of Frigates, particularly if he older work in conjunction with the newer.

Add to that the following:

6 Luyang II DDGs
2 Luyang I DDGs
2 Luzhou DDGs
4 Sovs DDGs
2 Luhu DDGs
1 Luhai DDG

Then you have the makings of a fairly modern force of 29 fairly to very modern firgates and 17 fairly to very modren destroyers.

That's good base to build on, and the PLAN looks like they will be building two FFGs and two DDGs each year for the forseeable future.

By 2015 they should have 25 DDGs and 38 FFGs. When you consider that for the most part they will be concentrated within the first two island chains, they will form a very significant force that cannot help but be taken into account, particularly when you add 1-3 carriers and 3-4 LPDs and maybe a couple of LHAs to that mix.

At that point the legacy vessels will have less and less detractful meaning.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Jeff Head said:

Amen. As to it stopping after 12, well, the 13th is already building and will soon be launched. And I believe at least five more are certainly planned, but will not speculate for sure until I see them.

I am putting together:

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Great web page on China's Type 054 and 054A Jiangkai-class frigate. I bookmarked it. Anyway, I brought out the colors in your photo; feel free to substitute it on your website if you wish.