052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Some in the Pakistan Navy are talking about moving the Karachi naval base out of the city. But that will not be to Gwadar. Gwadar lacks the industrial infrastructure, roads and railways and the air bases necessary to support a major naval base.
China might help Pakistan to build a new naval base near Karachi and, if she does, might in future have reliable access to that base, in five or ten years time.
Gwadar is and remains a civilian port that was apparently neglected by Singapore Port Authority and is now, it seems, to be transferred to a Chinese company. The port needs the development of mining in Baluchistan as well as road and rail connections with Afghanistan to become viable. In addition it might serve to handle cargo to and from China after the Karakoram railway has been built.
Perhaps it is not strange that Gwadar develops slowly. Its is just waiting for the end of the Afghanistan war.

P.S. This seems to be somewhat off topic.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Yes, off topic, but thanks anyway.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Well apart from the poor coverage of the CIWS, keeping the HHQ-7 instead of installing newer SAM system on the 052 class might be for more practical logistic reasons - if we take a closer look at the new generation SAM systems PLAN uses, North Sea Fleet is predominantly Russian systems while the South Sea Fleet are predominantly Chinese systems, leaving the HHQ-7 as the common system in all 3 fleets.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

delft said:

The division of PLAN in three fleets made perfect sense in the time it was still a coast defense navy.

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If I recall correctly, in the official 60th Anniversary DVD of the PLAN, it was mentioned that the PLAN was originally made up of defectors from the KMT naval forces. The strange thing mentioned in the DVD was that KMT combined their fleets (think it was 4 or 5) into 1 for better command and control. Unfortunately, when defections happened, the KMT also lost most of their fleet. To prevent the same thing from happening, CCP promptly divided the naval assets into 3 fleets. And they have stayed that way ever since.

delft said:

With the induction of aircraft carriers and large amphibious ship will come a reorganization probably in a single home fleet and, perhaps much later, an ocean fleet.

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I'm not so sure. If anything, more fleets will be formed instead of fewer fleets (compared to the current 3). This will create more competition within the PLAN, which should lead to better innovation.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

MwRYum said:

With eventually 6 052C DDG, that's about enough dedicated air defense ships to deck out the surface components of a small battle group centered around a carrier or a LPD

What'd be interesting from hereon are:
1. Which fleet will get those 4 new ships?
2. How'd such battle group composed? Right now 052C DDG and 071 LPD all goes to the South Sea Fleet so the organization is simple.

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Could it be that the PLAN is simply leaving the other two fleets pretty much as they were and focusing on creating a ocean going south fleet? It seems to be closest to middle east, and also facing the weakest countries relatively speaking in blockade capabilities.

Ie PLAN's plan is to gain more experience and hardware first. And currently they still do not think that the other two fleets would be very useful in a confrontation with powers such as US backed korea/Japan. They probably still expect land based assets to do most of the work.

On the otherhand, type 022 FACs seems to be going to different fleets, and this reflects on their importance as a defense measure in the eyes of the PLAN.

Probably won't be surprised if varyag eventually goes to south sea fleet.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

no_name said:

Could it be that the PLAN is simply leaving the other two fleets pretty much as they were and focusing on creating a ocean going south fleet?

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I believe the PLAN could create an excellent CSG consisting of the former Varag as the carrier center piece, two 052C DDGs, two 054A FFGs, two 993 SSNs, and two other surface combatants depending on the needs of the mission, ie. a 052B and a Sov, or an 051C and another 054A, etc.

Next to the US Navy CSGs and perhaps the French, right now such a force would be the most powerful CSG available IMHO. Later, the UKs QE force with it's Type 45 DDGs would also compete. But I believe the PLAN will have the finances to not only sustain it, but to build several more and sustain them as well.

This is why the Koreans, the Japanese, and the Aussies are all building carrier-type groups to augment one another and the US as allies. The Japanese 22DDH if outfitted with JSF and the Aussie Canberras particularly, also if embarking JSF will be very credible threats with their AEGIS escorts. If the S. Korean LHD2 program comes about, add that to the mix.


S. Korean LPD2 Program


Japanese 22DDH Program

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Newer pic of the 4th type 052C. Looks like the PAR has been installed but weapon hasn't. Should be close to launch.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

from same batch of photos, we see the 3rd, 4th and 5th unit of 052C. I'm still not clear if some of the photos are showing blocks from the 6th 052C or not.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

no_name said:

Newer pic of the 4th type 052C. Looks like the PAR has been installed but weapon hasn't. Should be close to launch.

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Nice. Number four on way! More for PLAN enthusiasts to crow about. With four they can provide very credible air defense for two task groups at once, ie a Carrier and an LPD task force.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Jeff Head said:

Nice. Number four on way! More for PLAN enthusiasts to crow about. With four they can provide very credible air defense for two task groups at once, ie a Carrier and an LPD task force.

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The 5th and 6th ones are in the docks as well but the former won't be launched until 2012, after which the construction of the Type 052D will start.