drunkmunky
Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Is that Yagi style radar outdated?
Is that Yagi style radar outdated?
052/052B Class Destroyers
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
shen
Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
no. want a VHF band radar for its anti-stealth property, that's the type of antenna you are stuck with. the modern Russian Nebo SV still uses antenna that looks like a box spring.
no. want a VHF band radar for its anti-stealth property, that's the type of antenna you are stuck with. the modern Russian Nebo SV still uses antenna that looks like a box spring.
drunkmunky
Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
so these VHF frequencies can detect stealth?
I just read that it's not very accurate.
so these VHF frequencies can detect stealth?
I just read that it's not very accurate.
andyhugfan
Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
It doesn't need to be accurate. It's not an engagement radar, but a surveillance one. It just need to detect the target and pass it's position, range, heading etc. to other radars to engage the target. Engagement radars now know where to 'look' in the sky to find the target and to focus it's radar energy on it. Kinda like in the picture:
It doesn't need to be accurate. It's not an engagement radar, but a surveillance one. It just need to detect the target and pass it's position, range, heading etc. to other radars to engage the target. Engagement radars now know where to 'look' in the sky to find the target and to focus it's radar energy on it. Kinda like in the picture:
Last edited:
plawolf
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Most stealth aircraft are optimised against high frequency radars which are typically used in engagement radars because of their high accuracy.
VHF radars have a much better chance of detecting stealth aircraft, but because of the nature of the VHF radio waves the radar uses, its accuracy is poor and not suitable for targeting use. That is just a limiting of the radar frequency rather than the radar itself.
Most stealth aircraft are optimised against high frequency radars which are typically used in engagement radars because of their high accuracy.
VHF radars have a much better chance of detecting stealth aircraft, but because of the nature of the VHF radio waves the radar uses, its accuracy is poor and not suitable for targeting use. That is just a limiting of the radar frequency rather than the radar itself.
drunkmunky
Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
So logistically can Yagi radars be networked from ship to ship, battle group to battle group? establish a net?
So logistically can Yagi radars be networked from ship to ship, battle group to battle group? establish a net?
kwaigonegin
Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
it is speculated from inside sources that the P-18 (NATO codename Spoon Rest D) metric VHF radar was instrumental in taking down the F-117 over Serbia in 1999 with SA-3. There were of course many factors involved including highly experienced missile commander and crew, human intelligence (there were Serb spies camping outside Aviano), weather, lack of SEAD missions that night etc etc... and also a dash of luck sprinkle in however yes VHF especially if dialed into low frequency band has a better chance of detecting the presence of stealth.
it is speculated from inside sources that the P-18 (NATO codename Spoon Rest D) metric VHF radar was instrumental in taking down the F-117 over Serbia in 1999 with SA-3. There were of course many factors involved including highly experienced missile commander and crew, human intelligence (there were Serb spies camping outside Aviano), weather, lack of SEAD missions that night etc etc... and also a dash of luck sprinkle in however yes VHF especially if dialed into low frequency band has a better chance of detecting the presence of stealth.
Last edited:
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Since this is the 052 thread, I'll move the reply to the 054 thread:
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/054-series-frigate-thread-2-a-169-4149.html
Since this is the 052 thread, I'll move the reply to the 054 thread:
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/054-series-frigate-thread-2-a-169-4149.html
shen
Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Yes they can be networked. But you really want to network radars of different frequency bands. For example, VHF on one ship detect a stealthy target head on, S or X band radars on different ships now focus in on that location and hopefully get a broadside view of the target where it is not as stealth optimized and get a targeting solution.
Yes they can be networked. But you really want to network radars of different frequency bands. For example, VHF on one ship detect a stealthy target head on, S or X band radars on different ships now focus in on that location and hopefully get a broadside view of the target where it is not as stealth optimized and get a targeting solution.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Actually, networking several identical coherent wave pulse dupler radars onboard different ships affords a unique potential capability that can't be matched by networking different radars operating in different drequency bands.
Basically, you can use each radar in the network simulataneously as a receiver for all the other radars in the network. Instead of processing the return of each radar separately on its own ship into discrete target information and then send the target information to a central combat information center, you send the raw electronic returns from each radar to a central processor via your data network, where all the returns are processed together and their phases angles are compared. This has the effect of turning your entire network of many identical radars into one single enormous sythetic aperture receiving array with an equivalent aperture size equal to the furtherest distance between any two radar in the network. Such an sythetic aperture array would function like one single radar, but with enourmous resolving power, accuracy and precision many orders of magnitude better than can be achieved by any single radar antenna onboard one ship.
A synthetic aperture array has the further advantage of being able to coordinate the phase angle of the transmission of all of its radar antennas in such a way as to construct desired constructive and destructive interference in the radar transmission. This allows the combined radar waves to arrive at the target as if it came from a direction and location where none of the individual radar sets is at. In other words, I can coordinate two radars such that the combined beam arrives at the target as if it had come from any point between the two radars, instead of from either of the two radars. This way several ships linked together by a data network and using their radars in a combine sythetic aperture mode can illuminate the target with a beam from any angle along an arc defined by the two furthest ships in the network.
Stealth ships and planes relies on detecting incoming radar beams, and using sophisticated software to analyze how to steer a course so that the incoming beams are not reflected back towards their sources. Using a coordinated synthetic aperture array made of several ships spread out over a large area can completely nullify stealth by creating the effect that incoming radar beams is arriving from continuously varying directions, as a result the stealth ship's mission software would become completely unable to determine how to steer the ship or plane so as to avoid reflecting the incoming beams back to the actual locations of the radars.
Actually, networking several identical coherent wave pulse dupler radars onboard different ships affords a unique potential capability that can't be matched by networking different radars operating in different drequency bands.
Basically, you can use each radar in the network simulataneously as a receiver for all the other radars in the network. Instead of processing the return of each radar separately on its own ship into discrete target information and then send the target information to a central combat information center, you send the raw electronic returns from each radar to a central processor via your data network, where all the returns are processed together and their phases angles are compared. This has the effect of turning your entire network of many identical radars into one single enormous sythetic aperture receiving array with an equivalent aperture size equal to the furtherest distance between any two radar in the network. Such an sythetic aperture array would function like one single radar, but with enourmous resolving power, accuracy and precision many orders of magnitude better than can be achieved by any single radar antenna onboard one ship.
A synthetic aperture array has the further advantage of being able to coordinate the phase angle of the transmission of all of its radar antennas in such a way as to construct desired constructive and destructive interference in the radar transmission. This allows the combined radar waves to arrive at the target as if it came from a direction and location where none of the individual radar sets is at. In other words, I can coordinate two radars such that the combined beam arrives at the target as if it had come from any point between the two radars, instead of from either of the two radars. This way several ships linked together by a data network and using their radars in a combine sythetic aperture mode can illuminate the target with a beam from any angle along an arc defined by the two furthest ships in the network.
Stealth ships and planes relies on detecting incoming radar beams, and using sophisticated software to analyze how to steer a course so that the incoming beams are not reflected back towards their sources. Using a coordinated synthetic aperture array made of several ships spread out over a large area can completely nullify stealth by creating the effect that incoming radar beams is arriving from continuously varying directions, as a result the stealth ship's mission software would become completely unable to determine how to steer the ship or plane so as to avoid reflecting the incoming beams back to the actual locations of the radars.
Last edited: