052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Hendrik_2000 said:

France is bound by ITAR She cannot conceivably sell china dual use weapon system. period . All those system sold to China were long time ago when there is brief honeymoon between China and the west . But Since TAM China is under weapon embargo

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AFAIK ITAR is a US national program applying to US tech. France technology is not bound by it, of course (unless you count US components in french hardware/software). However there is an EU arms embargo against china because of the T. crackdown.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

I think you will find you are wrong again not only has the West sold weapons but so has Europe obviously not to the extent some would like but never the less and this is all in the last 5-10 years not pre - 1989

Israel, Ukraine and Russia as well as European county's such as Germany, France, UK and Switzerland and none were limited to duel use weapons

Swiss sold G-DF 35 mm AA gun and Israel sold Python 3 the list is quite extensive, and if you have any more comments I will eat them up right here

That's how it works in the world and every one does it no one is 100% indigenous

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You have annoying habit of shooting from the hip without even checking your data first the weapon 80's import that you listed above occur during the 80's To refresh your obtuse memory read this article first

China have move on since the 80's. The latest Chinese short range missile is PL 10 Anyway Luoyang did make changes on the original Python 3 to make it compatible with Chinese radar and firing control system So it was indigenised Much better than Pakistan record what did she contribute to the JF 17 development other than a bucket of paint! and 100 year loan!

As to Sky guard we live in 2013 and China just won the most competitive tender in Turkey pitting it against the best in the world and you bring the subject of sky guard a WW II era Aak AAk? you must dreaming .As I said before France has negligible influence on Chinese military development


Python 3 is a third-generation short- to medium-range air-to-air missile developed by Israel in the early 1980s to arm its F-15, F-16 and Mirage fighter fleet. The missile took part in the 1982 Fifth Middle-East War (Lebanon War) against Syrian aircraft before its design was even finalised. The Israeli Air Force claimed that the missile had better performance in speed, turning radius, and range compared to the U.S. AIM-9L Sidewinder. China and Israel agreed on the deal to purchase a small number of the Python 3 as well as a co-production in 1982, and the delivery of the missile began in September 1983.




China imported a small number of the Oerlikon *** twin-35mm AAA and the associated Skyguard air defence radar system from Switzerland in the 1980s. Later the weapon was produced in China locally under license as the Type 90. The Oerlikon *** AAA system is available in three major variants: ***-1, ***-2 and ***-3. It is not known exactly which model the Type 90 was based on, but it is thought to be comparable in performance to the ***-2 developed in 1980. The Type 90 was first revealed to the public during the 1999 National Day parade held in Beijing.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

kroko said:

AFAIK ITAR is a US national program applying to US tech. France technology is not bound by it, of course (unless you count US components in french hardware/software). However there is an EU arms embargo against china because of the T. crackdown.

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Are you sure that France can produce all the computing semiconductor by herself. It involve some kind of computing I am quite sure that Intel or Texas instrument will get involve . Enough for ITAR to apply

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Guys, Adeptius response on my comment on how the type 054 resembles Lafayette, he was talking about the original type 054. Not the 054a which of course has Russian weapons and electronics. The original type 054 (2 built) have french electronics and some french weapons, like HQ-7 (crotale) and the thomson-csf radar.

After two were built, they upgraded the design to a true modern FFG with e.g. VLS, that can hold it's own in the highest spectrum of naval warfare.

And Asif is right about tech transfer from western sources to China mainly in the '80. China has learned a lot about these systems and is now producing it's own versions, be it upgrades, derivatives or totally new designs.

Heck the USA had some joint projects with china back than, like upgrading type 59 tanks, APG radars and air-to-air missiles. China was becoming quite an ally until the Tienanmen square happened.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

cool down boyyys

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Hendrik_2000 said:

You have annoying habit of shooting from the hip without even checking your data first the weapon 80's import that you listed above occur during the 80's To refresh your obtuse memory read this article first

China have move on since the 80's. The latest Chinese short range missile is PL 10 Anyway Luoyang did make changes on the original Python 3 to make it compatible with Chinese radar and firing control system So it was indigenised Much better than Pakistan record what did she contribute to the JF 17 development other than a bucket of paint! and 100 year loan!

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Luckily the vast majority of Chinese do not think like you, you have a very small mentality if that's all you can come up with

But like they say there's always one rotten apple in every basket

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

Luckily the vast majority of Chinese do not think like you, you have a very small mentality if that's all you can come up with

But like they say there's always one rotten apple in every basket

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Is he Chinese?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Let's not resort to calling names whenever there is disagreement. It's not as if that person has an agenda. Asif has been a regular friend.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Marine diesels are designed in very few countries, the main ones being Germany, France, Finland and Switzerland. There is little or no international trade in slow and medium speed engines as these are produced near the shipyards. An example that has been mentioned earlier is that of the near identical Pielstick engines used in 071 and San Antonio class.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bronco Models just announced , the 172 and 173. Cannot wait to get my hands on them. Probably be building one of these and adding it to my as soon as it is available in China.

Bronco Models said:

Two new sister ships are soon to be available for large scale modern Chinese Navy fans!

Bronco Models has announced the upcoming release of two new Type 052D destroyers in 1/350, an excellent scale for smaller hulls such as these.

The Type 052 destroyers are currently in service with the PLAN (People's Liberation Army Navy), and form part of the growing blue water navy of mainland China's expanding naval forces.

These new Chinese-built destroyers appear to be equipped with modern advanced Chinese electronics and weapons systems that are suspected to be comparable with modern western destroyers.

As always with Bronco, these should be well done kits and a good value for their cost.

1/350 Chinese Navy Type 052D Missile Destroyer 'Changsha' [173] NB5040
The Changsha is the third and most recent ship of the Type 052D class to be completed, and was launched from the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai earlier this year.

1/350 Chinese Navy Type 052D Missile Destroyer 'Kunming' (172) NB5039
The Kunming is the first of six prospective Type 052D destroyers to be completed, officially being launched from Shanghai's Jiangnan Shipyard earlier in 2013.

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