052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

Second ESF should of course be NSF.

You take the 052D pt.nos. from Wikipedia, I guess. I think they are wrong, and that it should be 172-175 for SSF and 117-120 for NSF.

Why does everyone seem to hate the SOVREMENNYY class? They are still the closest PLAN comes to a cruiser...

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Size doesn't matter. Its the system that counts. Sov is just like buying Su-35 into PLAAF fleet and is odd out and alien of the China military. Since you mention about sizes, the only place where sizes matter will be the CMS side where the bigger the better to challenge the Japan coast guard. I suggest decomission Sov and strip weapon on her except the AK-136 guns and retain her hanger. Hand her over to CMS. Her perfect size will comes in handy.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

What reason is there to believe that the Sov's have not been fitted with the best communication systems China uses? Any navy would keep such powerful ships up to date if it could and China has the industrial capabilities to do just that.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The entire PLA would look kind of empty without Soviet/Russian weapon systems and engines. A few hundred engineless J-10's, a lot of Swiss anti-aircraft guns, a hundred French air defence systems, French and some US helikopters...

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Lion said:

Its the system that counts. Sov is just like buying Su-35 into PLAAF fleet and is odd out and alien of the China military. I suggest decomission Sov and strip weapon on her except the AK-136 guns and retain her hanger. Hand her over to CMS.

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Apart from the size, the Sovs have very strong ASuW capabilities and strong ASW capabilities, and the weapons and sensors to compliment them. To this day, they are effective and capable warships.

There are four of the vessels, and the weapons and sensor fits on the two Type 052B vessels are very, very similar. So those six vessels are not really odd or alien to PLAN service. In terms of modern weaponry, only the Type 054A and Type 052C have equal or more numbers in their class than those six.

Given their ASuW capabilities, given their ASW capabilities, and given their very decent AAW capabilites (albeit not as good as the Type 52C/D vessels) they are valuable assets to the PLAN and I expect to see than remain in PLAN service for the next 20 years.

We shall see. Time will tell.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The Sovremenny are just shy of 8,000 tons full load, they are heavy and tough and well equipped for a bruising fight with any surface combatant

Sunburn SS-N-22 has a 300kg warhead enough to punch a hole through a carrier, they will serve PLAN for a very long time

Transferring to coast guard was a suggestion not a reality

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

If the Sov have a phase array radar on 052C or 052D to replace the traditional ones, they are very formidable foe even at the expense of a stealthy hull and ship body...

But I am thinking too much

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Lion said:

Size doesn't matter. Its the system that counts. Sov is just like buying Su-35 into PLAAF fleet and is odd out and alien of the China military. Since you mention about sizes, the only place where sizes matter will be the CMS side where the bigger the better to challenge the Japan coast guard. I suggest decomission Sov and strip weapon on her except the AK-136 guns and retain her hanger. Hand her over to CMS. Her perfect size will comes in handy.

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JNCX are building two 12,000 ton cutters for the coast guard. You don't need old steam turbine sovs in CMS.

And like everyone has already said, they are still good ships, and PLA hasn't reached the stage yet where the benefits of streamlining their entire logistics chain is worth the loss of a number of foreign warships and systems.
If PLAN really wants to play around with their sovs, I suggest removing the arm shtil launchers for as many new CCL VLS as they can fit, and load them with LACMs.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

The entirely PLA would look kind of empty without Soviet/Russian weapon systems and engines. A few hundred engineless J-10's, a lot of Swiss anti-aircraft guns, a hundred French air defence systems, French and some US helikopters...

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I am surprised a vivid China military watch is so ignorant on Chinese military. Entire PLA looks empty? How many tanks and armour China bought from Russian? Besides the Sov, none of the PLAN warship is bought from Russian. Even most sub system is made in China. The western has proven many times that embargo would have slow china military but it proves to be he other way round. Shall Russian stop selling aero engine to China like AL-31. I am sure domestic WS-10 production will speed up or faster assimilate. In fact, its the other way round. WZ-10 attack helo is one great example. Canada engine is banned expor to China military, no problem, WZ-9 turbo shaft is there and WZ-10 attack helo is 100% home made. I will like to see Russia ban AL-31 engine to China. that will only made the top brass of using cheap solution of buying AL-31 engine not feasible.

I will say without China purchase during those critical times, Russian military will fold up. I am more than happy to do without US , French and Russian subsystem. It will only means home grown product will induct faster, more R&D fund pour in and more military find will granted. China military in fact will be stronger and more advance.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

And China would not be where it is today in self sufficiency without having access to russian technology to build their own industry.

chill out, lion

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Lion said:

I am surprised a vivid China military watch is so ignorant on Chinese military. Entire PLA looks empty? How many tanks and armour China bought from Russian? Besides the Sov, none of the PLAN warship is bought from Russian. Even most sub system is made in China. The western has proven many times that embargo would have slow china military but it proves to be he other way round. Shall Russian stop selling aero engine to China like AL-31. I am sure domestic WS-10 production will speed up or faster assimilate. In fact, its the other way round. WZ-10 attack helo is one great example. Canada engine is banned expor to China military, no problem, WZ-9 turbo shaft is there and WZ-10 attack helo is 100% home made. I will like to see Russia ban AL-31 engine to China. that will only made the top brass of using cheap solution of buying AL-31 engine not feasible.

I will say without China purchase during those critical times, Russian military will fold up. I am more than happy to do without US , French and Russian subsystem. It will only means home grown product will induct faster, more R&D fund pour in and more military find will granted. China military in fact will be stronger and more advance.

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Bltizo said:

And China would not be where it is today in self sufficiency without having access to russian technology to build their own industry.

chill out, lion

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Sorry Lion, but seriously, China would be a giant North Korea today were if not for the help from the Soviets, Americans, and Japanese. Granted, the Chinese are extremely good students and a big part of where they are today is a direct result of its own tremendous efforts. But credits needs to be given where due.