052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

Looks like D4 is in the building hall from where D3 was launched over 4 months ago and that’s modules for D5 sitting outside so no change from the last set of pictures from DDG perspective

The mystery of the empty hall way is continuing almost a year has passed and it has just sat empty, doesn’t look like there is any re-tooling inside as we can’t see any scaffolds or work going on inside...or it could be they have just decided to slow DDG production by shutting it down as they probably were going too fast either way it’s a warship hall way that is not in use, I hope we see a surprise from there soon!

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I thought 2-3 Type 052Ds were going to be built at Dalian.

If this is true, then it is very possible that the last Type 052D there at Jiangnan will be D5. That is, if the total of eight Type 052Ds is accurate. If it were me, I'd build at least 12. But if it is true, then the parts for D5 will go into the hall when D4 comes out, and then, thereafter we will see what transpires. As to the other hall...it is quite the puzzle. D5 could be building in there now.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

I thought 2-3 Type 052Ds were going to be built at Dalian.

If this is true, then it is very possible that the last Type 052D there at Jiangnan will be D5. That is, if the total of eight Type 052Ds is accurate. If it were me, I'd build at least 12. But if it is true, then the parts for D5 will go into the hall when D4 comes out, and then, thereafter we will see what transpires. As to the other hall...it is quite the puzzle. D5 could be building in there now.

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I don’t know about Dalian if they do we will see it so until then I guess it’s just speculation, if they were to build we should have seen work there this year some modules some re-fitting of the yard etc but nothing so far

If D5 goes into the empty hall way then why did they not build D3 there? So I believe D5 will go where D3 and D4 came from and the empty hall most likely stays empty until we see otherwise

As for DDG in PLAN I see it like this, they will retire all those Ludas and be left with 11 modern DDG, that’s 2 x Type 051C, 1 x Type 052, 2 x Type 051B, 2 x Type 052B and 4 Sovs

Per fleet it is as follows

SSF
167, 168 and 169

ESF
136-139

ESF
112,113, 115 and 116

Add in 6 x Type 052C and 8 x Type 052D that’s another 14 DDG so total DDG fleet is 25 DDG they will transfer one to coast guard probably a single Sov Class which means 24 DDG or 6 Flotillas that’s 2 for each fleet

We already know for Type 052C they are 170 and 171 for SSF and 150-153 for ESF next lot of 8 x Type 052D will go to complete the flotillas at SSF and NSF

So I don’t see more than 8 x Type 052D being built that’s the limit on this one

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

As for DDG in PLAN I see it like this, they will retire all those Ludas and be left with 11 modern DDG, that’s 2 x Type 051C, 1 x Type 052, 2 x Type 051B, 2 x Type 052B and 4 Sovs

Per fleet it is as follows

SSF
167, 168 and 169

ESF
136-139

NSF
112,113, 115 and 116

Add in 6 x Type 052C and 8 x Type 052D that’s another 14 DDG so total DDG fleet is 25 DDG they will transfer one to coast guard probably a single Sov Class which means 24 DDG or 6 Flotillas that’s 2 for each fleet

We already know for Type 052C they are 170 and 171 for SSF and 150-153 for ESF next lot of 8 x Type 052D will go to complete the flotillas at SSF and NSF

So I don’t see more than 8 x Type 052D being built that’s the limit on this one

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Or, alternately, keep the Sov and transfer the 51B. Then, as follows by fleet (and Franco-Russo, please correct these placements as necessary):


SSF
168 (52B) and 169 (52B), 154 (52D), 155 (52D)
170 (52C), 171(52C), 172 (52D), 173 (52D)

ESF
136-139 (Sov)
150-153 (52C)

NSF
112 (52B), 113 (52B), 115 (51C) and 116 (51C)
117 (52D), 118 (52D), 119 (52D), 120 (52D)

Then use four 52Ds for carrier escort duties. Build a dedicated Carrier Strike Group for each carrier, using two 52Ds and two 54As for each carrier. That's where the additional Type 052D could go.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Second ESF should of course be NSF.

You take the 052D pt.nos. from Wikipedia, I guess. I think they are wrong, and that it should be 172-175 for SSF and 117-120 for NSF.

Why does everyone seem to hate the SOVREMENNYY class? They are still the closest PLAN comes to a cruiser...

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Slightly off topic but China should also establish a amphibious ready group around three Type 071 LPD and one LHA backed by the Type 072 III LST that's one group for each fleet so you have 9 x Type 071 LPD and 3 x LHA that's a 40,000 ton flat top not a light weight type Mistral in the class of Wasp is more like it

At Anyone time you can deploy two groups or two full strength brigades of 12,000 marines this is in addition to a carrier strike group

That would seriously give PLAN a huge naval fleet for home and international waters would trump in size anyone outside the USN

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

That would certainly be a good sized amphibious assault fleet well suited for all missions the PRC will likely need to undertake for most of the 21st century.

The challenge isn't so much in allocating money to build the ships, but rather organizing and training the crews as well as the marines to operate them. Not to mention the PLAN lack of helicopters will hinder their vertical lift capabilities for many years yet.

However 9x LPDs 3x LHAs and a final count of 5x carriers will probably be the critical mass of the PLAN and be the height of its power, if it reaches such a level in coming decades. Anything more, and the state probably won't want to fund it, nor would there be such a need for a fleet larger than that.




The sovremenny's are equipped with old propulsion, lack of effective communications with other home built PLAN vessels, and have massive RCS, and it's difficult to change these factors without massive modification. That said, sovremennys are formidable shore bombardment ships and even the old moskit SSMs can probably still penetrate most non aegis protected formations. If only they could replace the one arm Shtil launchers for some VLS with LACM... then that might give the PLAN a useful completely surface warfare/land attack oriented ship. The Shtils should be replaced, considering HHQ-16 on 054A frigates outrange it.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

No, the one in post 3471 was D2.

The pictures of D1 at Dinghai were from 5 October. As can be seen in post 3512, it was still missing some serials (Mineral-ME, 517), so there would absolutely nothing strange about the ship returning after its-outfitting initial trials. It is not a long journey from Dinghai to Shanghai.

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Okay, so if the picture in post 3471 is D2, and considering it's already painted white...



Then does that mean D2 has left for sea trials as well, if the 052D here is D1 back from dinghai?




And are these two 052D thus D3 and D4, if post 3471's D2 was already painted white and looked like it almost finished fitting out?



Only conclusion I can see is that post 3471 is D1. playing musical chairs with destroyers.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Ddg 150

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

franco-russe said:

You take the 052D pt.nos. from Wikipedia, I guess. I think they are wrong, and that it should be 172-175 for SSF and 117-120 for NSF.

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Okay. But if 172-175 052Ds are in SSF, is this then in addition to 171 and 172 052Cs, also staying in SSF?

franco-russe said:

Why does everyone seem to hate the SOVREMENNYY class? They are still the closest PLAN comes to a cruiser...

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I agree. I believe the Sovs are good vessels.

Strong ASuW capabilities. Perhaps not excellent AAW defense, but decent nonetheless. Also very good other armaments all around. An excellent vessel to have along in any SAG or Amphibious operation.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

I agree. I believe the Sovs are good vessels.

Strong ASuW capabilities. Perhaps not excellent AAW defense, but decent nonetheless. Also very good other armaments all around. An excellent vessel to have alon in any SAG or Amphibious operation.

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The Russian have a taste of putting the best weaponry on board every ship they built. Which made other potential enemies not to mess around with Russian ship.

The idea of SS-N-22 Moskit is very intimating to others.