052/052B Class Destroyers

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I expect to see D5 in the second hallway soon. Otherwise it will be sitting outside in modules for a long time.

I expect we will see the Type 052D being built for some time to come as well there. It really is a very decent design, and will be a very capable area air defense vessel, and also a very capably multi-role destroyer.


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Again, with a total of six Type 052Cs, and then at least that many Type 052Ds (and I actually expect that there will be at least 12 of them), the PLAN is going to be outfitted with a very world class destroyer force that will be capable of performing all sorts of missions, including, of course, excorting their carriers in the future.

It will be sitting outside for attest 12 momths if it doesn't go to the empty hallway

But as always with PLAN you can never know, for example the time between C5 and D1 was 8 months and time between C6 and D2 was even faster, that is 6 months!! And that's going from Type 052C to Type 052D, they actually went faster with a newer model

That means these hallways are very well rehearsed and equipped in DDG construction, they can if they want put the modules together in under 6 months, the D4 looks to me its on a fast track, it could in theory get launched in late Dec 2013 meaning that D5 only spends 6 months out in the yard which kind of makes sense because it's only the mid section module first appearing they still need to build the rest

They launched 7 DDG in a span of 32 months, that's one every 4 1/2 months average, I don't think PLAN has such bad foresight and logistics that they went go from 1 DDG every 4 1/2 months to 1 DDG every 12 months within a year they know exactly what they are doing, it's all planned, the hallway is empty for a reason and probably a very good one, I don't think they would keep it ideal for 12 months for nothing not after that rapid expansion, its probably under going modification

My take is Type 055 is coming and the current hallway is going all for DDG build, as a matter of fact the module for the cruiser are likely to be under construction somewhere at JNCX and we could see them soon

As of date we have identified 6 x Type 052C and 5 x Type 052D total 11 DDG, very capable high end
Plus 13 other capable DDG we know which ones they are
Plus 19-20 Type 054A and a similar number of Type 056 corvettes

I count that to be just shy of 70 warships before this year is out, and I count Type 056 as a warship, one hell of a surface force right there
 

drunkmunky

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Is it possible for any other shipyard to produce this ship with the same efficiency?

Can DDG manufacturing maintain this rate at another location?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Also there is no provision for a VDS array at all. This suggests 052C has pretty limited ASW capability.

Does China have any plans to produce a credible ocean going ASW escort? Lack of strong ship based ASW capability would seem to be a very glaring gap in PLAN's carrier escort force taking shape now. ASAIK, they have no effective stand off ASW weapon, they have no VDS capability, and they don't seem to have any thing comparable to large, highly sophisticated sonar arrays for passive 2 CZ anti-submarine survellance.
The vessel in your pictures is a Type 052B DDG. Two of them were built before the Type 052Cs. They are based on the same hull designs. The Type 052B is basically a PLAN DDG that contains pretty much a very similar weapons fit to the Sovs they bought from Russia...sort of a PLAN Sov, with the notable exception that the Type 052B mounts twice the ASuW ASM punch with sixteen ASMs instead of eight.


Photo-PLAN-Guangzhou.jpg


Their ASW loadout consists of ASW rockets (probably meant to be used to defend against torpedos IMHO), ASW torpedos, and a single ASW helicopter. The ASW helo, for all destroyers is their long range ASW weapon of choice.

The Type 052C is a different vessel, multi-mission but clearly optimized for area air defense. For sonar, they are equipped with a SJD-8/9 medium frequence, active/ passive search and attack sonar.


052C-01.jpg


The PLAN does a TAS capability carried by a number of their other vessels. But here is a general comparison of the two sonars for the Burke Flight IIA vessels and the Type 052C:

Burke:
- SQS-53C hull mounted sonar (HMS), medium frequency active search and attack.
- Passive or active operations, tracks up to 100 active targets.
- Variable Depth Sonar (VDS) mode phased out of US hull mounted sonars 15 years ago.
- Indegenous US Design incoporates up to three convergence zone alrgorythms.
- Acquistion ranges up to 30 km for active & up to 150 km for passive using convergence zone variables.
- Integrated into the overall ships defensive systems through the AN/SQQ-89 Surface Ship ASW Combat System
- Generally recognized as the best, most powerful bow mounted sonar in the world.

Lanzhou:
- SJD-8/9 hull mounted sonar (HMS), meduim frequency search and attack sonar.
- Passive or active operations and incorporates Variable Depth Sonar (VDS) operations.
- Probably based on/developed from the French DUBV-23/43 HMS/VDS system.
- HMS/VDS ranges of 20/50 kilometers .

Here's more info on the Burke AN/SQQ-89 Surface Ship and ASW Combat System.

It is an integrated ASW combat system combining improved sensors and weapon control systems with advanced acoustic data processing and display. The system integrates the AN/SQS-53B/C hull mounted sonar, the AN/SQR-19(V) Tactical Towed Array Sonar and the AN/SQQ-28(V) LAMPS MK III Shipboard Electronics with the ASW Control System (ASWCS) MK 116 MOD 5/6/7/8/9 and supports the operational concepts of full-dimensional protection and precision engagement by providing long range detection, tracking, localization and correlation of surface and subsurface contacts and engagement of subsurface contacts via the ship's Combat Direction System or Command and Decision subsystem.

Various combinations of the AN/SQS-53B/C, the AN/SQR-19(V), the AN/SQQ-28(V) and the MK 116 constitute the AN/SQQ-89 variants installed on the Ticonderoga Class and Arleigh Burke Class vessels. Combinations of the AN/SQR-19(V) and AN/SQQ-28(V) only are included in the AN/SQQ-89(V) variant installed on the OHP Class FFGs, which is why they remain strong ASW platforms with their various sonars and helos.

You can see a more exhaustive comparison of the two classes (Burke Flight IIA and Type 052C) of vessels on SD at the following thread:

Arleigh Burke Flight IIA compared to the PLAN Lanzhou (Type 052C) Class

Over the last 10+ years SD has accumulated a LOT of such comparisons with a LOT of commentary. Using the sites search function can generate a lot of info about these specific questions.
 
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adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

IMO the traditional "towed fish" is being replaced by "towed eel", which can be released with much smaller openings. The AN/SQR-20 MFTA for example, is only 3" in diameter. Such systems do not need a big ramp in the back.

The 052C is better compared to the Type 45. They lean more toward being AAW destroyers with limited multi-role capability, and its ASW capability is more for defense than offense. In comparison, the Japanese Takanami class ASW destroyer has a stronger ASW & ASuW suite, but more limited AAW (compared to Akizuki-class with FCS-3A).

While it'd be easy for us to point out a number of "missing" or "lacking" systems/features, we should also consider that space/weight on a warship is a premium, cost & feature creep usually lead to delays, and AAW destroyer's primary role is AAW and not ASW.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Can anyone here speculate on what type of ASW suite/sonar the 052D will have? PLAN needs to concentrate on surface ASW because I believe that is where their weak link. Their ship AAW is pretty strong and so is their SSW however ASW is a tad behind IMHO.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Can anyone here speculate on what type of ASW suite/sonar the 052D will have? PLAN needs to concentrate on surface ASW because I believe that is where their weak link. Their ship AAW is pretty strong and so is their SSW however ASW is a tad behind IMHO.
Kwaigonegin if I had to guess right now about the ASW Sonar fit for the 52D, I would say it will be the same basic loadout as the Type 52C, with perhaps improved versions of that specific sonar and sensors.

The ASW weapons loadout (helo, rockets, torpedos) will be the same IMHO.
 
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Blackstone

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

If I had to guess right now, I would say it will be the same basic loadout as the Type 52C, with perhaps improved versions of the sonar and sensors.

The ASW weapons loadout (helo, rockets, torpedos) will be the same IMHO.

What about the ASM and LACM on the 52D?
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

If they keep up that rate, they would have 60 new DDGs by late 2020s. This suggest a rate of capitalization comparable to USN.

Why would China field 60 DDGs? They don't need that many Destroyers in the YS, ECS, SCS, Western Pacific and Indian Oceans. Also, they don't have the basing and logistical support to sustain a global fleet, and probably wouldn't have it by 2030.
 
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