Blackstone
Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Are you guessing or do you have unofficial, but solid, information?
Are you guessing or do you have unofficial, but solid, information?
052/052B Class Destroyers
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
The number of ships and their capabilitys will be dependent upon the PLAN stratedgy which is inturn outlined by the CCP
Today PLAN is expanding but it's nowhere near what the USN mission profiles are, certainly China will expand they will not stay where they are
With each fleet consisting of 2 x DDG Flotilas, 2 x FFG Flotillas and 3 x Corvette Flotillas
This is based on retiring everything and keeping the 10-11 "known" DDG, 6 x Type 052C and 8 x Type 052D= 24 DDG or 6 x Flotillas
It's also based on the 2 x Type 054 and 22 Type 054A frigates, again 24 frigates or 6 Flotilas
And then finally 9 Flotillas of Type 056 corvettes = 36 Type 056
Now if we added in anti-piracy missions, counter-narcotics, illegal smuggling, foreign obligations as well as national security missions as well as excercises you can see this fleet is stretched already
There is no doubt China has the Indian Ocean in its programme of expansion, Gwader was taken back from Singapore port authoritys after Chinese state owned company was pushed to take over the port so I certainly think Gwader is a prime locatin for a permanent Chinese naval base to cover North Indian Ocean, Seychelles and East Coast of Africa completed the coverage of the Indian Ocean, so I see 3 permanent Chinese naval bases where repair, overhaul and maintainence can be carried out on Chinese ships
Further more there's also the possibility that China establishes "semi-permanent" naval bases to cover missions like anti-piracy, let's be honest there's no way China could have sent a Type 054A to Libya so quickly if it wasnt already deployed out on the anti-piracy missions, this is the value of forward deployment
For the permanent bases I can see 1 x DDG, 1-2 FFG and a logistics or replenishment tanker for each naval bases, that's already 12 vessels committed or on rotation in and out
Therefore i can't discount China expanding to say 3 DDG Flotillas and 3 x FFG Flotillas for each fleet which again really isn't totally out of the question
This would ensure a prolonged Type 052D run to 12 units and a Crusier tally of 8-12 Type 055 CG and introduction of 12 x Type 054B units to create a 3rd FFG Flotilla
This ensures over 100 warships rather than roughly 80 warships
The number of ships and their capabilitys will be dependent upon the PLAN stratedgy which is inturn outlined by the CCP
Today PLAN is expanding but it's nowhere near what the USN mission profiles are, certainly China will expand they will not stay where they are
With each fleet consisting of 2 x DDG Flotilas, 2 x FFG Flotillas and 3 x Corvette Flotillas
This is based on retiring everything and keeping the 10-11 "known" DDG, 6 x Type 052C and 8 x Type 052D= 24 DDG or 6 x Flotillas
It's also based on the 2 x Type 054 and 22 Type 054A frigates, again 24 frigates or 6 Flotilas
And then finally 9 Flotillas of Type 056 corvettes = 36 Type 056
Now if we added in anti-piracy missions, counter-narcotics, illegal smuggling, foreign obligations as well as national security missions as well as excercises you can see this fleet is stretched already
There is no doubt China has the Indian Ocean in its programme of expansion, Gwader was taken back from Singapore port authoritys after Chinese state owned company was pushed to take over the port so I certainly think Gwader is a prime locatin for a permanent Chinese naval base to cover North Indian Ocean, Seychelles and East Coast of Africa completed the coverage of the Indian Ocean, so I see 3 permanent Chinese naval bases where repair, overhaul and maintainence can be carried out on Chinese ships
Further more there's also the possibility that China establishes "semi-permanent" naval bases to cover missions like anti-piracy, let's be honest there's no way China could have sent a Type 054A to Libya so quickly if it wasnt already deployed out on the anti-piracy missions, this is the value of forward deployment
For the permanent bases I can see 1 x DDG, 1-2 FFG and a logistics or replenishment tanker for each naval bases, that's already 12 vessels committed or on rotation in and out
Therefore i can't discount China expanding to say 3 DDG Flotillas and 3 x FFG Flotillas for each fleet which again really isn't totally out of the question
This would ensure a prolonged Type 052D run to 12 units and a Crusier tally of 8-12 Type 055 CG and introduction of 12 x Type 054B units to create a 3rd FFG Flotilla
This ensures over 100 warships rather than roughly 80 warships
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
The only way I see of getting to 60 DDGs is for all of the expanison you indicate to occur and even more.
Let's say they do expand to 3 DDG Flotillas per fleet. And let's say that have five foreign bases (instead of three) where the force structure you indicate is deployed independent of those fleet flotillas. Finally, lets say each fleet has its own independent carrier stike group (CSG)
This would lead to the folloing in terms of detroyer force structure per your own analysis.
3 DDG Flotillas per fleet x 4 DDGs = 12 Flotilla DDGS per fleet x 3 fleets equals 36 Flotilla DDGs
1 CSG per fleet with 2 x DDGs in each CSG x 3 fleets equals another 6 CSG DDGs
5 bases x 1 DDG per base equals another 5 Base DDGs
That is 47 DDGs for a VERY expanded PLAN. Now, you will need at least 12-13 DDGs rotating through maintenance and updates to maintain this number deployed, so that would get you to sixty.
But this is a HUGE expansion of the current PLAN roles and I do not expect to see such a force structure develop for another 20+ years. But thata's just my opinion. Lots can happen in 20+ years to impact this one way or another.
I think that Blackstone was specifically questioning the figure of 60 DDGs.
The only way I see of getting to 60 DDGs is for all of the expanison you indicate to occur and even more.
Let's say they do expand to 3 DDG Flotillas per fleet. And let's say that have five foreign bases (instead of three) where the force structure you indicate is deployed independent of those fleet flotillas. Finally, lets say each fleet has its own independent carrier stike group (CSG)
This would lead to the folloing in terms of detroyer force structure per your own analysis.
3 DDG Flotillas per fleet x 4 DDGs = 12 Flotilla DDGS per fleet x 3 fleets equals 36 Flotilla DDGs
1 CSG per fleet with 2 x DDGs in each CSG x 3 fleets equals another 6 CSG DDGs
5 bases x 1 DDG per base equals another 5 Base DDGs
That is 47 DDGs for a VERY expanded PLAN. Now, you will need at least 12-13 DDGs rotating through maintenance and updates to maintain this number deployed, so that would get you to sixty.
But this is a HUGE expansion of the current PLAN roles and I do not expect to see such a force structure develop for another 20+ years. But thata's just my opinion. Lots can happen in 20+ years to impact this one way or another.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
My basis is on the assumption that that the carrier strike groups would pull on DDG from the current Flotillas and not have independent DDG operating with them
If the current DDG production continued as it has since 2010 then by 2020 thats a full decade PLAN could field 36 DDG
In addition they could also have 36 FFG too, these are very realistic numbers
Question really is what is PLAN stratedgy, or a better question what is CCP strategy, as of now I bet they have short listed a number of naval bases which they can use, more than that they probably have a comprehensive plan of what exactly they want and where
But I think it's clear the area of operation for permanent naval presence is on the Indian Ocean, they could essentially cover the entire area with three naval bases, North, South and East of Africa, PLAN likes the operations in the Indian oceans they have dispatched what 15 naval task forces for Gulf of Aden missions and had good experience
Covering the Island Chains PLAN can break into the Pacific and as such they don't really need to focus on any naval bases there, trumphing India in this game is probably high on the agenda so I think within the next 5-10 years we will see concrete steps by China to establish these bases
Pakistan, Seychelles and many East Africa countries are the top favourites in my opinion, but this will require a huge expansion in vessel numbers
My basis is on the assumption that that the carrier strike groups would pull on DDG from the current Flotillas and not have independent DDG operating with them
If the current DDG production continued as it has since 2010 then by 2020 thats a full decade PLAN could field 36 DDG
In addition they could also have 36 FFG too, these are very realistic numbers
Question really is what is PLAN stratedgy, or a better question what is CCP strategy, as of now I bet they have short listed a number of naval bases which they can use, more than that they probably have a comprehensive plan of what exactly they want and where
But I think it's clear the area of operation for permanent naval presence is on the Indian Ocean, they could essentially cover the entire area with three naval bases, North, South and East of Africa, PLAN likes the operations in the Indian oceans they have dispatched what 15 naval task forces for Gulf of Aden missions and had good experience
Covering the Island Chains PLAN can break into the Pacific and as such they don't really need to focus on any naval bases there, trumphing India in this game is probably high on the agenda so I think within the next 5-10 years we will see concrete steps by China to establish these bases
Pakistan, Seychelles and many East Africa countries are the top favourites in my opinion, but this will require a huge expansion in vessel numbers
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
There is also a personnel issue right? 36 DDGs sound like a lot of sailors to train and they are having trouble recruiting enough people as it is. And they also have to build additional infrastructure if they are creating DDG flotillas.
escobar
Brigadier
steve_rolfe
Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
052D construction surging ahead.
From newer images from JN shipyard, as posted elsewhere on the web............it can be clearly seen that the 4th 052D is now in one of the hallways.
Meanwhile outside is a large module that could be for the 5th 052D!
052D construction surging ahead.
From newer images from JN shipyard, as posted elsewhere on the web............it can be clearly seen that the 4th 052D is now in one of the hallways.
Meanwhile outside is a large module that could be for the 5th 052D!