052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

kwaigonegin said:

I agree with your assessment. I too have done some research and formed the same conclusion. The Type 055 will be a larger 052D with more sophisticated sensors and more missiles. It will however still be a fairly conventional design. It will NOT have a tumbledome hull nor will it have AGS like the Zumwalts.

There is no doubt PLAN has caught up immensely in the last couple decades but they are not there yet. When USS Zumwalt commissions, it will be the most sophisticated vessel on Earth by far and nothing will come close. PLAN may very well catch up to the Zumwalts one day but it won't be in the Type 055. Maybe the next one afterward but we're talking at least 15 years in the future.

With that being said when Type 055 or even 052D sail the seas they will be very potent and capable vessels themselves and very close to the likes of Burke Flight III ships. The Type 055 is probably on par with the current upgraded Tico class cruisers.

Click to expand...

It think we should remember zumwalt is a lot more than just AGS and its stealthy tumblehome hull

Improved automation, new sensors, new integrated propulsion, new VLS, integrated mast etc...

Personally I too expect a conventional flared hull for 055 and it'll almost definitely carry the same 130mm gun. But I'd expect to see advancements in automation, sensors/mast and definitely propulsion if not at zumwalt's standard, at least near.

I'd expect 055 to sit somewhere between flight iii burkes and zumwalt in capability/future growth capability if 055's full displacement really is 12,000 tons. Weapons is another matter.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

no_name said:

You mean something like this?:

Click to expand...

Though the drawing is probably a pure work of fiction, assuming it is not, the arrangement of the engine air intakes/exhausts prevents the radar arrays to do their work and blocks a portion of their view. There is a reason why Burke's stacks are arranged the way they are, all longitudinally along the ship, not across it in double rows like here.

Solution would be to get the radar arrays higher up, which is actually benefitial in almost every regard, if the mass of the whole system and top weight could be brough down or at least kept within the acceptable limits for the given ship displacement. In that regard a bigger ship could certainly perhaps afford to go with higher radar arrays, compared to a smaller ship which would need them to remain where they are on 052 class.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Another interesting point that is being discussed elsewhere......is whether the type 055 will be powered by gas turbines or a nuclear powered engine!!

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

It think we should remember zumwalt is a lot more than just AGS and its stealthy tumblehome hull

Improved automation, new sensors, new integrated propulsion, new VLS, integrated mast etc...

Personally I too expect a conventional flared hull for 055 and it'll almost definitely carry the same 130mm gun. But I'd expect to see advancements in automation, sensors/mast and definitely propulsion if not at zumwalt's standard, at least near.

I'd expect 055 to sit somewhere between flight iii burkes and zumwalt in capability/future growth capability if 055's full displacement really is 12,000 tons. Weapons is another matter.

Click to expand...

Yep, I too think 055's biggest leap vs the 052C/D's will be displacement, number of VLS cells, more automation, better sensors, better propulsion, integrated mass, and more stealthy improvements. But nothing extreme like an unconventional hull. Just building up a fleet of 055s would tremendously shift the military balance in the region and then some.

steve_rolfe said:

Another interesting point that is being discussed elsewhere......is whether the type 055 will be powered by gas turbines or a nuclear powered engine!!

Click to expand...

My money's on gas turbines and not nuclear power. While unlimited distance and infrequent refueling are advantages, they don't outweigh security measures required dockside as well as limitations on a smaller hull (vs something like a carrier) when needing to stockpile food provisions and other fuels (for the helo). I know subs are usually smaller but they have much different objectives which makes nuclear outweigh the negatives in that category.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

Another interesting point that is being discussed elsewhere......is whether the type 055 will be powered by gas turbines or a nuclear powered engine!!

Click to expand...

There is absolutely no chance of 055 will be nuclear powered because PLAN doesn't have a nuclear powered carrier yet. Nuclear power makes sense for carriers because all the fuel bunkers can be devoted to aviation fuel storage. Nuclear power make far less sense for destroyers, unless they are intended to escort nuclear carriers as part of a nuclear task force that can maintain high speed for extend periods.

I wonder if it would make sense to make an arsenal ship version of 055. Remove the hangar, reduced the size of the super structure, should be able to fit in two more 64 units VLS modules, for a total of 256 VLS tubes. Don't need the expensive AESA radars, basic air search radar, short range SAM, ideally quad packed SD-10s and two FL-3000n launchers. It should be cheaper to build and man than a full 055 destroyer, but pack 250 long range anti-ship or land attack cruise missiles. That's twice the firepower of an Ohio class SSGN at far less cost. It would need to heavily escorted of course.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

Another interesting point that is being discussed elsewhere......is whether the type 055 will be powered by gas turbines or a nuclear powered engine!!

Click to expand...

Definitely not nuclear.

4 QC280s would be perfect

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Latest rumour on the Type 055A regarding possible CIWS

Currently fitted exclusively to the 'Liaoning carrier', it is now expected that the new H/PJ-14 (also called Type 1130) which appears to be an evolution of Type 730 will be fitted to the Type 055 12,000 ton Destroyer.
It is equipped with a new 11-barrelled gun with an increased rate of fire (local media have reported a 10,000 rounds per minute firing rate). Probably because of this very high rate of fire, H/PJ-14 is fitted with two ammunition drums, one on each side (as opposed to a single ammunition drum on Type 730).

Apparently........H/PJ-14 is able to intercept incoming anti-ship missiles up to a speed of Mach 4 with a 96% success rate.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

Latest rumour on the Type 055A regarding possible CIWS

Currently fitted exclusively to the 'Liaoning carrier', it is now expected that the new H/PJ-14 (also called Type 1130) which appears to be an evolution of Type 730 will be fitted to the Type 055 12,000 ton Destroyer.
It is equipped with a new 11-barrelled gun with an increased rate of fire (local media have reported a 10,000 rounds per minute firing rate). Probably because of this very high rate of fire, H/PJ-14 is fitted with two ammunition drums, one on each side (as opposed to a single ammunition drum on Type 730).

Apparently........H/PJ-14 is able to intercept incoming anti-ship missiles up to a speed of Mach 4 with a 96% success rate.

Click to expand...

can you give a source for these random source of information you are getting? There are a lot of "big shrimps" on Chinese forums and half of them are full of it. We have to be careful here on who we are posting about.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Not even the 14000+ tons DDX is nuclear powered, when and if China will be ready to move to DEWs (which require a lot of energy) they could theoretically build a nuclear-powered cruiser like soviet did in the past. But this is future, and considering the chinese smoke and mirrors this will be hidden as much as possible.
For now a displacement increase in chinese destroyers from 7500 to 12000 tons will be both very challenging but more feasible development. There are a lot black hole in china military development, but not such big like hide a nuclear reactor powered vessel. I am more curious on the speculation on the net (i've readed on mashup several months ago) that other shipyard other than Shanghai are building 052Ds, this would be in line with the china-sun-tzu strategy, or maybe it is only western paranoia.Time will tell.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

tphuang said:

can you give a source for these random source of information you are getting? There are a lot of "big shrimps" on Chinese forums and half of them are full of it. We have to be careful here on who we are posting about.

Click to expand...

Yes.........i realise there are lots of information on Chinese defence forums, which lets say are very wishful thinking.

i.e there have been a few images of the proposed type 055 looking like some sort of 'Zumwalt' alternative, clearly these are fanboy photoshop creations.

I only post items here which i think are realistic, and are from sources of military news articles, which have in the past proven to be more reliable.

Regarding the CIWS, this comes from a news page on the 'Liaoning' carrier, and suggests that the CIWS on the carrier would most likely also end up on being used on the type 055.

Here is a link to one of the articles i found on the same topic.....