052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

From scrolling around various Chinese sources, I have come across the following information.

In regards to the Type 052D's...................it has been mentioned that the Chinese expect these vessels to have a shorter build to service time over the type 052C's of around 6 months, due to improved construction methods.
It had been noticed here that it had taken quite some time for the 052C's to be fitted out.

More news on the Type 055 beast.
Latest news is that this ship has been designed. Originally there were 2 plans for this ship. A 9000 ton vessel, and a 12000 ton vessel.
Apparently the 12000 tonne vessel has been selected for the build and will be powered by four improved versions of the QC-280 gas turbines.

Aparently the look of the ship will be more like an enlarged type 052D, but with larger VLS missile capability..................rather than the futuristic concept drawings of a Zumwalt like ship we have seen.

Latest images of the vessel are on the internet, and though obviously not a given deal that they are what the final ship will actually turn out to be..............they are certainly a lot more realistic........but we have to wait and see wont we?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

You mean something like this?:



So similar to Burke but with displacement similar to Sejong the Great, or similar to flight III, which will be the mainstay of the USN destroyer force. Makes sense rather than going the Zumwalt route as it will be in limited numbers even for the USN.

I want 128 cells

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

If it displaces 12k tons you'd better hope it has 128 cells!

At first I thought that drawing of 055 was way small compared to 052C... but 052C is actually as long as a burke, so with that in mind it actually scales right.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

From scrolling around various Chinese sources, I have come across the following information.

In regards to the Type 052D's...................it has been mentioned that the Chinese expect these vessels to have a shorter build to service time over the type 052C's of around 6 months, due to improved construction methods.
It had been noticed here that it had taken quite some time for the 052C's to be fitted out.

More news on the Type 055 beast.
Latest news is that this ship has been designed. Originally there were 2 plans for this ship. A 9000 ton vessel, and a 12000 ton vessel.
Apparently the 12000 tonne vessel has been selected for the build and will be powered by four improved versions of the QC-280 gas turbines.

Aparently the look of the ship will be more like an enlarged type 052D, but with larger VLS missile capability..................rather than the futuristic concept drawings of a Zumwalt like ship we have seen.

Latest images of the vessel are on the internet, and though obviously not a given deal that they are what the final ship will actually turn out to be..............they are certainly a lot more realistic........but we have to wait and see wont we?

Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment. I too have done some research and formed the same conclusion. The Type 055 will be a larger 052D with more sophisticated sensors and more missiles. It will however still be a fairly conventional design. It will NOT have a tumbledome hull nor will it have AGS like the Zumwalts.

There is no doubt PLAN has caught up immensely in the last couple decades but they are not there yet. When USS Zumwalt commissions, it will be the most sophisticated vessel on Earth by far and nothing will come close. PLAN may very well catch up to the Zumwalts one day but it won't be in the Type 055. Maybe the next one afterward but we're talking at least 15 years in the future.

With that being said when Type 055 or even 052D sail the seas they will be very potent and capable vessels themselves and very close to the likes of Burke Flight III ships. The Type 055 is probably on par with the current upgraded Tico class cruisers.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

no_name said:

You mean something like this?:

So similar to Burke but with displacement similar to Sejong the Great, or similar to flight III, which will the the mainstay of the USN destroyer force. Makes sense rather than going the Zumwalt route as it will be in limited numbers even for the USN.

I want 128 cells

Click to expand...

Yes....thats it.......my image had adverts plastered on it ...hence i removed it

Yes 128 VLS cells.

Well regarding the 'Zumwalt'.......I dont think anyone would even try to build such a ship at the moment.........its not so much that other countries dont have the capability.........but.more like they want to see how the 'Zumwalt' performs in the real world first.............and that especially means the Americans who hope to see if it lives upto claimed expectations.

Anyway....it will take quite a few years to assess whether the Zumwalt is a success or not once in service!
Still i can't see how this massive 14000 ton ship is supposed to sneak in close to enemy shores....haha

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

kwaigonegin said:

I agree with your assessment. I too have done some research and formed the same conclusion. The Type 055 will be a larger 052D with more sophisticated sensors and more missiles. It will however still be a fairly conventional design. It will NOT have a tumbledome hull nor will it have AGS like the Zumwalts.

There is no doubt PLAN has caught up immensely in the last couple decades but they are not there yet. When USS Zumwalt commissions, it will be the most sophisticated vessel on Earth by far and nothing will come close. PLAN may very well catch up to the Zumwalts one day but it won't be in the Type 055. Maybe the next one afterward but we're talking at least 15 years in the future.

With that being said when Type 055 or even 052D sail the seas they will be very potent and capable vessels themselves and very close to the likes of Burke Flight III ships. The Type 055 is probably on par with the current upgraded Tico class cruisers.

Click to expand...

Tumblehome hull has inherent stability problems. It was a bad idea last time around, when the French built several class of warships with tumblehome hull in the late 1800's. They were very avant garde looking but poor performing ships. It seems it may still be a problem for Zumwalts.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

shen said:

Tumblehome hull has inherent stability problems. It was a bad idea last time around, when the French built several class of warships with tumblehome hull in the late 1800's. They were very avant garde looking but poor performing ships. It seems it may still be a problem for Zumwalts.

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Click to expand...

Yes....it appears the 'Zumwalt' in reality is a very large expensive test bed for all sorts of naval innovations...........whether it and its 2 sistor ships actually will provide the US Navy with some extra strength, remains to be seen.

Meanwhile the rest of the world will continue to build, lets say more conventional warships!

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

shen said:

Tumblehome hull has inherent stability problems. It was a bad idea last time around, when the French built several class of warships with tumblehome hull in the late 1800's. They were very avant garde looking but poor performing ships. It seems it may still be a problem for Zumwalts.

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Click to expand...

I may be totally wrong but I'm pretty sure the understanding of ship designs and naval architecture as well as material science and ship construction have improved just a tad bit since the 1800s.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

Yes....it appears the 'Zumwalt' in reality is a very large expensive test bed for all sorts of naval innovations...........whether it and its 2 sistor ships actually will provide the US Navy with some extra strength, remains to be seen.

Meanwhile the rest of the world will continue to build, lets say more conventional warships!

Click to expand...

Could be partly true about the testbed part.. similar in some ways to the F-117s... only a few dozens were built but they were very very sophisticated machines of their time and flew even way back in the late 1970s when no one knew about their existence but a select few. When they flew what they were designed to do, they were eons ahead of any other nation. Does that mean it will win a dogfight with an F-16A? slim chance BUT can an F-16A block 1 flying alone at night drop bombs at a designated target deep in enemy territory heavily guarded by all sort of SAM batteries, trip As and fighters come out unscatch? slim chance either.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Looking at the video, the instability problem is still there. From Wikipedia, "In April 2007, naval architect Ken Brower said, "As a ship pitches and heaves at sea, if you have tumblehome instead of flare, you have no righting energy to make the ship come back up. On the DDG 1000, with the waves coming at you from behind, when a ship pitches down, it can lose transverse stability as the stern comes out of the water – and basically roll over."[83] The decision to not use a tumblehome hull in the CG(X) cruiser, before the program was canceled, may suggest that there were concerns regarding the Zumwalt's seakeeping.[65]"

The choice to use a tumblehome hull even knowing the stability problem is because USN want the Zumwalts to operate relatively close to enemy shore. Although why would one care about stealth on a large ship that also have a high power radar suite giving away its position is anyone's guess. The primary purpose of Zumwalt is naval gunfire support, with the 155mm guns, and the 80 cells VLS packed primarily with Tomahawks. Zumwalt doesn't use the proven Aegis combat system, so as it exist now, it has less anti-air capabilities than the Aegis cruisers and destroyers.