052/052B Class Destroyers

asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:
Maybe you want to show me where they said anything to the effect that they would rather have a Daring than a Burke or Ticonderoga. Make my day.


So can a Burke or a Ticonderoga, and they could do it better. Burkes have up to 96 VLS cells, Ticos up to 128. This underestimates the true number of missiles due to quad-packing of ESSM's. These VLS cells contain an assortment of all-up rounds for AAW, ASW, ABM, and strike that the Daring's SYLVER in its wildest fantasies could not hope to match, with its pitiful 48 cells for single-packed Aster 15 and Aster 30 AAW missiles. SM-2MR Block IIIB (the current standard) and Block IV outclasses the Aster 30 and ESSM outclasses the Aster 15. The Aster 30's active terminal homing is mostly negated by the SM-2's need for only brief terminal illumination as well as Block IIIB's addition of an infrared seeker. The SM-3's ABM performance outclasses that of the Aster 30. When the ERAM/SM-6 gets put into more ships, it will massively outclass the Aster 30. VLA has no equivalent in the Daring. The SPY-1/Aegis/CEC combo is mature and has gone through numerous iterations while the SAMPSON AESA is untested and is also just a rotating dual-planar radar, which introduces the possibility of a single-point failure (the rotating mechanism) which the Burkes and Ticos do not have. It is not at all clear to the common person whether PAAMS is as sophisticated or as comprehensive as Aegis, or whether the RN's data networking capabilities have the degree of integration that CEC provides the USN. The Daring's only possible advantage over the Burke and the Tico is its ballistic missile detection capability. However, that is already in the process of being rectified with the Aegis BMD upgrade currently spreading through all the ships during refits. I could easily go on and on into more minutiae, but you should probably review the capabilities of these USN ships again before you get too excited about the Daring class.
Click to expand...


Fact that you seem you think that more missiles means better ship sums up ur knowledge on the subject, the rest of your post is just speculation
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:
That will be an impressive carrier group and I look forward to the UK having it, though normally they will field only one at a time.

But the US forces at the time will be equal to or exceeding these capabilities in allarea.

The Ford class carrier will simply have no equal, in terms of airwing, or in terms of capabilities to sortie, or electrical capailitess, or endurance, etc., etc.. The F-35B, though far better than the Harriers it is replacing, will be far weaker than the Super Hornets or the F-35C which will both have much longer range and carry weight in terms of amount and variety of ordinance. The E-2D will be a couple of orders of magnitude better than the Helo AEW employed by the UK ccarriers. Even if they get a EV-22 AEW aircraft (which I sincerely hope they do) though it will dramatically improve the UK capability, it will still not be close to the E-2D..

The new Flight III Burkes will be the equal of the Type 45, IMHO, in the air defense capability...though there may be a few specs the Darings exceeed the Burkes in, the ability of the Burkes to fight together or with allies, and to coordinate the battle space is unequaled...they simply have decades of experience where the Darings are brand new to that game.

The Viriginia SSNs are the equal of the Astutes.

And instead of a Type 26 FFG the US will have a couple of Flight IIA Burke DDGs as a part of their group which will exceed the capabilities of the FFGs.

Do not get me wrong, these will be very modern and very capable ships...but the US will have something like 70 modern DDGs at that point and 10 much larger and more capable carriers.

No doubt, the Darings are a very welcome addition to the UK, and to the alliance overall...and the capabilities they have technically are world class. But they're new and yet to be fully integrated or exploited and that will take years of experience, and there are only 6 of them In addition AEGIS is no sitting still and has already added, or is adding capabnilities thaat meet or exceed the Darings in virtually every area.

I'm jusy glad we are close allies and will be working together. The UK battle groups will be a serious threat to any adversary all the same and I am glad, and pleased to see them "with us." Any enemy would not be pleased to see one of those groups confronting them.
Click to expand...


There is no question of Ameircan naval dominance, and has been for a long time, but considering UK had just one tenth of the US defence budget had been through termendous counter productive policys by governmental organisation repeatidly and still we will have one of the best surface forces in the world in less than 5 years

Have to give credit where it is due, UK shipyard workers and defence company's have done a fantastic job in meeting the defence requirements of the navy, even exceeding them, will France deploy such a force? No

UK hasn't built a full scale carrier for 30 years and even then we have retained the talent pool and experience to built these vessels

I do not think USN carrier task force would have anywhere near a easy task taking on a UK carrier task force in a simulated war game equipped with the list of assets listed previously

Additions I would like to see are inclusion of Tomahawk and Harpoon on the Type 45 DDG and have 12 of them
Use of Euro Typhoon used in carrier variant
New generation of LHD and LPD
6 MARS tankers rather than the 4, and have them built in UK than South Korea

Irony is most of the listed above we're actually planned by the navy but cut by government, if UK never went with US into Iraq we would have definetly not have cut our defence budget, we wasted billions there, in a way we came out low because we helped out Americans so some appreciation would be nice :)
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:
Fact that you seem you think that more missiles means better ship sums up ur knowledge on the subject, the rest of your post is just speculation
Click to expand...
It's obvious you don't have anything to say in response that's worth anything. I'm glad your post acknowledges that with its lack of detail. Once again, the Burkes and Ticos are better because they have more missiles, more varied missile loadouts, better missiles, proven combat data management system and proven fleet networking capabilities. Even their oldest carriers far outclasses the brand spanking new QE class carrier. The makeup of any of their CVBG's is superior both quantitatively and qualitatively to anything the RN can put together. The British are still putting out good ships, and IMO still superior to those of the PLAN, including the 052C class, but not enough to make anybody in the USN drool over them. Respect and envy are different emotions, and you are confusing the two.
 
S

steve_rolfe

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Lets not turn this into the usual US vs UK thread.

I mean i'am English and proud of our forces, though it is a tragedy that our politicians have run down our military since the Cold war..........but our Engineers make up for the political mishandling....and give our small island some top notch miltary equipment. It makes me wonder how good our forces would be if we had the political will and the funding that the Americans have. Anyway i think Jeff Head summed up the topic correctly, both nations have a respect for each others military equipment and training.

Now back on topic.........is the current 052C build count at 8 ships as of July 2012?
 
N

no_name

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

28jxn5h.jpg


Picture quality not too good but it looks like they may be testing stuff for the new destroyer after type 052c. The ship on the left has the new PAR as well as a bigger 'ball' above the bridge. It also has what looks like a VLS platform near the bow.

The ship on the right seems to have a new targeting radar above the bridge, and what looks like the missile CIWS near it's bow. The new targeting sensor looks like one we've seen before on another test ship. (not sure if varyag uses the same thing)

I think they are testing respective weapons/sensor suit for the new ship.
The new ship is likely to have FL-3000N or its variants.
 
N

no_name

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

This is what I'm looking for:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I remember the above being discussed in this forum before but can't find the thread post.

So it seems that stuff on the second ship has been tested already. I wonder if the ships just happen to be parked side by side or are they testing separate stuff that would go on the same platform.

Also wonder if Varyag use the same radar for targeting. (or maybe it is covered in a dome).
 
H

hmmwv

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The radar inside the ball on 891 and the radar on the bridge of 892 are both telemetry radars for test missile tracking purposes.
 
M

meyer

Just Hatched
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I have only seen Z-9 helos aboard rhe type 052C though at most drawings it carries a Ka-28. Does any 052C carry a Kamov?
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

i think its been a long standing belief (for a while now) that a new DDG for PLAN will be a upgraded version of the current Type 052C, namely the Type 052D, it has also been confused with a new DDG which is said to be bigger at around 10,000 ton which is a competely different DDG from Type 052D, namely the Type 056 Cruiser

Type 052D will be similar displacement to Type 052C, but the bigger and more powerful Type 058 will be a Tico sized Crusier, so we have 2 DDGs planned for China

so far every indication is that judgeing by the size of the new systems they will fit perfectly on a Type 052C DDG

so far our guess is that we have 6 Type 052Cs under construction at JN with 4 confirmed and 2 waiting for confirmation which i predict are actually Type 052C also giving total of 8 Type 052C DDGs, 4 for SSF and 4 for ESF

the new modules we recently seen are probably for Type 052D
 
I

i.e.

Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:
i think its been a long standing belief (for a while now) that a new DDG for PLAN will be a upgraded version of the current Type 052C, namely the Type 052D, it has also been confused with a new DDG which is said to be bigger at around 10,000 ton which is a competely different DDG from Type 052D, namely the Type 056 Cruiser

Type 052D will be similar displacement to Type 052C, but the bigger and more powerful Type 058 will be a Tico sized Crusier, so we have 2 DDGs planned for China

so far every indication is that judgeing by the size of the new systems they will fit perfectly on a Type 052C DDG

so far our guess is that we have 6 Type 052Cs under construction at JN with 4 confirmed and 2 waiting for confirmation which i predict are actually Type 052C also giving total of 8 Type 052C DDGs, 4 for SSF and 4 for ESF

the new modules we recently seen are probably for Type 052D
Click to expand...



all this rumours aside...


I have seen reliable sources say Ds will be substantially out numbering Cs.
and D is the bigger 8000-10000 ton destroyer with 4x GT25000 .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top